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 Post Post subject: Bookworm And Kings Daughter Beat-Down Fight Day 2019
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:01 pm 
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ToOers, it is time once again to celebrate the day of friendly fighting!

Over the span of a few hours on the seventh of March 2012, bookworm and The Kings Daughter happened to appear on opposing sides of various discussions across a few different threads. Impressed by this concentration of debate, AE declared it the institution of a ToO holiday and it has been celebrated ever since with great ceremony.

Welcome everyone, to the seventh observance of Bookworm And Kings Daughter Beat-Down Fight Day! \:D/


If you follow this ToO holiday you may be thinking it's extremely late, and you're right. I didn't forget about it back when it was supposed to happen, but I was too busy to arrange and host an organized event at the time. I hoped to just delay a month or so, but some other things came up and kept pushing it back and by the time I had the time to do something it seemed too late to go ahead with it. So for a while I considered skipping this year, as was done once before when the calendar didn't cooperate with the planned festivities, but it's been bothering me. I regret the one year we missed and would feel bad doing it again. I also didn't want to dissapoint anyone who enjoys participating in this silly thing by unilaterally cancelling. I didn't know how many other members would actually care one way or the other though.

And so, the event this year is an open debate on whether we should have an event this year! Pick a side and make your case! (The arguments you make do not have to actually represent your true feelings on the matter, in fact arguing for the opposite side is often encouraged here. This holiday is about debate for the sake of debate.)


As always the wonderful venue of Unnamed Arena will house our festivities. Please get your tickets punched and find a seat! The layout for this year is shown below:

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If you wish to make a point on either side of the subject, or support a previously made point, please step up to any open microphone. If you just want to observe take a seat in the bleachers.


The floor is open to whoever wants to get us started - let the festivities begin! \:D/


Previous BAKDBDFDs: 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018


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 Post Post subject: Re: Bookworm And Kings Daughter Beat-Down Fight Day 2019
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:04 pm 
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Babies are creepy, scary, unhygienic, and a menace to society.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Bookworm And Kings Daughter Beat-Down Fight Day 2019
Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:25 pm 
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I hope you saved a good seat for me, bookworm! I will be very displeased if I get stuck in overflow seating. :x

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 Post Post subject: Re: Bookworm And Kings Daughter Beat-Down Fight Day 2019
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:00 pm 
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Bob wrote:
Babies are creepy, scary, unhygienic, and a menace to society.
I have no idea what this is, so... *calls security to remove the seemingly unstable interrupter*


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 Post Post subject: Re: Bookworm And Kings Daughter Beat-Down Fight Day 2019
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:53 pm 
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bookworm wrote:
Bob wrote:
Babies are creepy, scary, unhygienic, and a menace to society.
I have no idea what this is, so... *calls security to remove the seemingly unstable interrupter*

Trying to put the 'beat down' (and drag out) back into things, eh? ;)

I defy you and the rest of the ToO to prove me wrong.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Bookworm And Kings Daughter Beat-Down Fight Day 2019
Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:09 am 
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 Post Post subject: Re: Bookworm And Kings Daughter Beat-Down Fight Day 2019
Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:47 am 
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Bob wrote:
Trying to put the 'beat down' (and drag out) back into things, eh? ;)
No, I was reacting to someone who burst into the room and immediately started shouting something bizarre. I think I understand now though; you were meaning to introduce that as a debate topic? If so security releases you. But I refer to the opening announcement and repeat that the subject this year is whether we should be having a celebration this year since it's so late. It's a meta-debate.


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 Post Post subject: Re: Bookworm And Kings Daughter Beat-Down Fight Day 2019
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:13 pm 
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bookworm wrote:
Bob wrote:
Trying to put the 'beat down' (and drag out) back into things, eh? ;)
No, I was reacting to someone who burst into the room and immediately started shouting something bizarre. I think I understand now though; you were meaning to introduce that as a debate topic? If so security releases you. But I refer to the opening announcement and repeat that the subject this year is whether we should be having a celebration this year since it's so late. It's a meta-debate.


If we allow this debate to start late, the creepy babies win. :noway:

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 Post Post subject: Re: Bookworm And Kings Daughter Beat-Down Fight Day 2019
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:23 pm 
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Your position on the debate topic is yes then? Because if we don't hold this celebration then random statements like that one don't have a place to be vetted?


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 Post Post subject: Re: Bookworm And Kings Daughter Beat-Down Fight Day 2019
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:30 pm 
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bookworm wrote:
Your position on the debate topic is yes then? Because if we don't hold this celebration then random statements like that one don't have a place to be vetted?


Yes, my position is yes, emphatically. I like creepy babies. :yes:

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 Post Post subject: Re: Bookworm And Kings Daughter Beat-Down Fight Day 2019
Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:04 pm 
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I agree; we should celebrate this holiday even if it's late. It's the only venue that naturally supports giving 'serious' debate about random subjects. It's a good thing to have once a year. It can be just silly fun for people who just want that out of it, but it also provides legitimate debate muscle stretching for people who want to treat their participation seriously even if the underlying discourse really isn't. The spontaneity of continually changing topics forces you to be quick in forming your arguments, and being able to choose which side you argue for and against gives the ability to intentionally debate contrary to your personal opinion which is a good exercise.


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 Post Post subject: Re: Bookworm And Kings Daughter Beat-Down Fight Day 2019
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:29 am 
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I completely disagree, on every point. It is clear and obvious for all to see that you are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

Firstly, the very premise of a pre-chosen debate topic by fiat is an abhominable aberration from the norm of every other event such as this pretends to be. This stifles the creativity of the members and degrades the already limited interest people have in the event, no thanks to it being held at an unseasonable time.

Secondly, overflow seating is the seating of the people. Like the 'nosebleeds', it is a great way to get a good seat that is just out of the way so that you can be comfortable away from all the light and noise and crowds, but still be as close as you want to be to the action.

Thirdly, Monty_Whittaker is not back.

Fourthly, creepiness is a trait held by stalkers, secret agents, terrorists, babies, and creepers. Given that all of these groups are clearly evil, it can be seen by anyone who wishes to be aware that babies, as a group, represent a force of evil.

Fifthly, Nate has implicitly implied that these events should always be held late. Thus he is a marked foe of the debate society, and any true debater should consider his words with a pound of sugar. This disrespect for our longstanding tradition denotes the presence of an harmonican.

Sixthly, bookworm said that he agreed with Nate. So, the evidence shows that between bookworm agreeing with known Baby-Supporter Nate, self-attested enemy of all beat-down fight days, and the sabotage of the schedule by aforementioned bookworm, that these proceedings are clearly a shame and a sham, and that if this is the kind of celebration we can hope to expect from a delayed event, it would have been indubitably better to have refrained from one at all.

Seventhly, there are many venues that support giving debate about subjects, random or otherwise. And if the virtues of this topic are so great, then it should be held more than once a year. The fact that it isn't held more than once, and then, this year and multiple other years, in a fashion that causes the audience to question whether it will ever be held at all, shows us that even the host of the event has cause to doubt in its supposed value. If the man who created this thread doesn't think it is worth the time, why should anyone else?

Eightly, the whole notion that any serious thread such as this can be 'silly fun' undermines the entire course of discussion and the process of intellectual mutual consideration of threads of reasoning and logic.

Ninthly, and finally, the entire notion that it is a good exercise to debate contrary to your opinion. Might I remind our audience that there is a phrase for this: being the DEVIL'S ADVOCATE. Furthermore, debating contrarily to your opinion supports these nefarious beliefs, and deceives the readers by suggesting that you actually hold these views. Thus, this 'good exercise' is really just LYING.

It is indisputably proven on the strength of these nine points that everything everyone else has said in the thread prior to this is incorrectably at fault and wrong. Q.E.D.

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Last edited by Bob on Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Bookworm And Kings Daughter Beat-Down Fight Day 2019
Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:29 pm 
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Bob wrote:
the very premise of a pre-chosen debate topic by fiat is an abhominable aberration from the norm of every other event such as this pretends to be
Actually this is precisely the kind of thing this event is all about, an absurd meta debate-about-debating. By design this celebration can take on any form from year to year. Usually it features spontaneous, or at least multiple, debate topics, but it doesn't have to. The opportunity to hold a debate about whether we should hold a debate was too perfectly in line with the attitude of this holiday to pass up, especially when the alternative was not doing anything to celebrate.

Bob wrote:
overflow seating is the seating of the people
That was Catspaw's issue, not mine, you'll have to take it up with her. But it doesn't relate to the merits of holding this holiday either way. We have never yet had to utilize the overflow seating due to capacity, it's simply set up just in case. And of course people can choose to sit in there even if there is still space in the main room if they desire.

Bob wrote:
Monty_Whittaker is not back.
This is irrelevant to the subject at hand, but is also demonstrably false anyway as he posted here definitely indicating his presence.

I will not respond to the points pertaining to the baby subject as they are ignoratio elenchi: arguments perhaps sound but conclusions failing to address the issue in question.

Bob wrote:
Nate has implicitly implied that these events should always be held late.
He did not. The most you could imply from his statement, and it's a stretch, is that he supports the specific debate about babies to be held late. He made no remark, implicit or otherwise, about when to hold the BAKDBDFD celebration.

Your sixth point is riddled with fallacies and false conclusions; suffice it to say my agreement with Nate was the belief that we should continue to hold this celebration in some capacity as the preferable alternative to missing another year in the future. It has no bearing or implication on what form that celebration would take in any given year or the perceived quality of the festivities therein.

Bob wrote:
there are many venues that support giving debate about subjects, random or otherwise.
Not to the same extent as this holiday provides. I assume your point is that anyone could go ahead and make a thread about anything they wanted to debate? That is true, but requires creation of a new domain specific to that subject that people have to get their attention over to for engagement. And depending on the circumstances an unsolicited random subject may not be well received or responded to. Whereas, the entire nature of this event is specifically designed to not only welcome but explicitly encourage the submission of random subjects for consideration. And as an established recurring event people are aware of they are more readily inclined to engage in said subjects than they may be for any off the wall thread someone posts on a whim.

Bob wrote:
even the host of the event has cause to doubt in its supposed value. If the man who created this thread doesn't think it is worth the time, why should anyone else?
This could not be more inaccurate. I explicitly stated that I do think it's worth the time and believe it has value, a position which is evidenced in more than my words by my commencing of the event we are engaging in at this very moment, believing that it's better we have a late celebration than none.

The eighth point is a false conclusion, of course having fun does not undermine the debate process. I refer you to any of the celebrations in past years where the subjects were pointedly silly and the participants just having fun, yet genuine reasoning and logical debate was still observed. Indeed, practicing serious debate in a silly setting such as this strengthens one's ability to preserve logical argument in varying situations.

To your final argument, debating contrary to your personal belief is actually encouraged by professionals; it is, again, strengthening your ability to use logic and valid reasoning whatever the situation.


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