US Election 2016 General Discussion Topic

[bookworm]

And there are protests happening all over. Why do Democrats get to throw tantrums? Republicans were just as dismayed about the 2012 outcome but didn't make a scene. To them everyone said "You lost, get over it." Why doesn't the other side have to react in kind?

[Tea Ess]

It took a while, but I came to have a very good understanding of this election. One could also word it inefficient evil vs efficient evil.

You have to consider the rest of the government too, however. The Republicans control all three government branches now, while if Hillary had won the House would have opposed her at every opportunity. Trump will be able to accomplish more of his agenda than she would have.

And there are protests happening all over. Why do Democrats get to throw tantrums? Republicans were just as dismayed about the 2012 outcome but didn't make a scene. To them everyone said "You lost, get over it." Why doesn't the other side have to react in kind?

This is a different election in nearly every conceivable way. First, I can guarantee you there would have been protests either way, considering how much hate there is for both candidates. Secondly, this is the second time the left has been screwed over by the electoral college in the last five presidential elections. Trump got less votes than Hillary and yet still won, and people should be angry about that.

[bookworm]

Except that this started immediately after the election was called last night, when Trump still led the popular vote.

[Mariogeek]

And there are protests happening all over. Why do Democrats get to throw tantrums? Republicans were just as dismayed about the 2012 outcome but didn't make a scene. To them everyone said "You lost, get over it." Why doesn't the other side have to react in kind?

I would say however that Hillary was pretty gracious during her concession speech, I'll give her that.

Lol everyone at the Clinton Campaign HQ was crying last night. Did anyone else see Sean Astin in the crowd during the concession speech this morning? It was kind of creepy. I looked it up and he has served under Bill Clinton as Civilian Aide to Secretary of the Army, and has been campaigning for Hillary ever since 2008.
President Trump. That will be interesting.

[Tea Ess]

It's been heated this entire election season. Given the outrageous things Trump has said and promised to do, it's not surprising people are upset, especially now with the popular vote and electoral college split.

[bookworm]

I'm not saying they shouldn't be upset - the losing side is always upset - I said why can they go rioting? They should be voicing their displeasure peacefully.

And again this had nothing to do with the popular vote when it first started. Yes that could be a part of it now (not a part that excuses rioting, but a valid part of lawful protests), but at the time I can see no explanation behind it other than being sore losers.

[Tea Ess]

Rioting/violence aren't okay, as always, but protests are totally understandable. Like I said, we'd be seeing this regardless of the result.

Yes, I know, and as I stated it's even more reason to be angry about this outcome now that we know it happened.

[bookworm]

it's even more reason to be angry about this outcome now that we know it happened.

If this hadn't broken out until that information was in and they could point to that as their reason then I could go with that; but it didn't, so I can't. The only 'reasoning' that happened last night (all that had time to happen because the reaction was so immediate, again while Trump was still up) was "My candidate didn't win, I'm going to go break windows."

[snubs]

I hope people aren't thinking the electoral college is a sham. I didn't understand it fully myself for a long time, but I realize that we need it. If it was purely by popular vote, we would continue to get the same outcome.

I do agree with Tea Ess about the protests. I think that would have happened either way, though I'm not so sure they would be quite as bad/harsh (considering some of the things I'm reading from Hillary supporters). I've noticed that Hillary supporters (and even non-Hillary supporters that still bash Trump), have been incredibly hateful and... yes I'm going to say it, bigoted. It's ridiculous and makes me angry, because I look at what they are saying and doing (even before the election results) and just shake my head at the hypocrisy that they are so blinded to see in themselves.

People who don't even support Hillary but despise Trump say that Trump supporters continue to justify his actions, yet, THEY THEMSELVES relentlessly justify Hillary's actions or don't even mention Hillary at all, but rip Trump to bits. The very people that are calling out Trumpers are doing the VERY THING they are saying Trump supporters are doing. The hypocrisy is real whether you all see it or not. It's utterly ridiculous.

I read this from Matt Walsh: "Leftists today are searching for answers to explain their defeat. They arrived at a conclusion pretty quickly, it seems. Clinton lost because Americans are sexist, racist, bigoted, awful, stupid, and hateful. They nominated the worst candidate in the history of the United States and have decided that she lost because WE'RE defective."

That statement is beyond true. All I see in the comments (and even from the media!) are people saying the Trump supporters/voters are sexists, uneducated, racists, bigots, lower class, idiots, retards, hillbillies, Islamophobic, homophobic, and every other kind of phobic there is. And that is just not true, and I don't appreciate being considered those things because of my choice.

I, myself, did not support Trump in the beginning and I did not vote for him in the election primaries. He was definitely not a choice I wanted. However, I reluctantly voted for him to simply vote against Hillary. One of them was going win, whether we liked it or not, and I wasn't going to not vote, because I just don't believe in doing that. And though I sided with Trump, that does not mean I support him fully. I am just as unsure about the future as a lot of people. Just because I preferred Trump over Hillary doesn't mean I feel like I can rest easy because he won.

[Arkán Dreamwalker]

It took a while, but I came to have a very good understanding of this election. One could also word it inefficient evil vs efficient evil.

You have to consider the rest of the government too, however. The Republicans control all three government branches now, while if Hillary had won the House would have opposed her at every opportunity. Trump will be able to accomplish more of his agenda than she would have.

One should note however that Hillery did have at least one qualification: she's done this before. Hillary's knowledge of the machine would have been effective.
As regards Trump, never have I seen a candidate (Or two candidates) so disliked by so much of their own party. Trump being a Republican does not guaranty very much co-op in this case.

I, myself, did not support Trump in the beginning and I did not vote for him in the election primaries. He was definitely not a choice I wanted. However, I reluctantly voted for him to simply vote against Hillary. One of them was going win, whether we liked it or not, and I wasn't going to not vote, because I just don't believe in doing that. And though I sided with Trump, that does not mean I support him fully. I am just as unsure about the future as a lot of people. Just because I preferred Trump over Hillary doesn't mean I feel like I can rest easy because he won.

Did anyone, anywhere, have the slightest doubt that Hillary, or any other given Democrat, would win California? No? Good. So as conservative Californian, I knew that in the presidential part of the election, at any rate, my vote would not affect the presidential outcome in the slightest. Thus deprived of encouraging the selection of the lesser of two evils, (too many "of"s) I voted third party. (McMullin specifically)
I am happy Clinton lost, but I am not happy that Trump won.

[Pound Foolish]

And there are protests happening all over. Why do Democrats get to throw tantrums? Republicans were just as dismayed about the 2012 outcome but didn't make a scene. To them everyone said "You lost, get over it." Why doesn't the other side have to react in kind?

Obama was not a cartoonishly evil white sexist racist and possible serial rapist, so no, the result was not the same. It was not a remotely similar case.
Also, the sexist language and physical violence at Trump rallies has been shocking, just sayin. Are we in a place to sneer at violence? I get it, we all enjoy our laughs at the other party and pats on our own back when we can get them, just sayin.

I've noticed that Hillary supporters (and even non-Hillary supporters that still bash Trump), have been incredibly hateful and... yes I'm going to say it, bigoted.

Um. Snubs. Chum. Have yah looked at Trump supporters lately? It seems odd to pick on Hillary supporters as opposed to Trumpeters.

[Bob]

I could be wrong, but I think the point that bookworm is trying to highlight here is the double standard, not that Hillary supporters are an atypical group in any way.

As far as that goes, I'm irritated, but not surprised. Hypocrisy is the first pillar of politics.

[snubs]

Yeah, if Hillary had won, I would not be all up in arms and think IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD. It would just feel like Obama all over again, but this time prepared for it, and expected it.

I've noticed that Hillary supporters (and even non-Hillary supporters that still bash Trump), have been incredibly hateful and... yes I'm going to say it, bigoted.

Um. Snubs. Chum. Have yah looked at Trump supporters lately? It seems odd to pick on Hillary supporters as opposed to Trumpeters.

Yes, I've seen Trump supporters. They, like most everyone get extremely nasty during elections. However, I am talking about the VAST majority of people who are so incredibly biased and bent toward Hillary (the media, in particular) it is unbelievable. . . .well actually, it is believable it's just infuriating and absurd. People who don't even LIKE Hillary are biased in her favor. I am so sick of all the two-faced people. Could you all just do yourself a favor a look at yourselves, I mean REALLY look at yourselves. Maybe ask your friends to help you out, because I know it's hard to see your own blind spots. Also, could you all stop passing the buck and just admit that it's true. And stop trying to act like you have the right to act this way because "Trumpeters" are doing it too. (I'm talking to the people posting on the Soda Shop as well)

This might sound random, but I'm going to say it; It is not "cool" to be liberal, to support things that go against what Christ teaches as if they "are not so bad." We, Christians, are becoming too lax and desensitized to things, it is disturbing (I even find it happening with myself). We CANNOT falter in our beliefs and convictions, no matter how much the world says we're wrong or "closed-minded." I'm sorry, if to you, me being conservative means I am ill-informed, closed-minded, and sheltered. I am proud to say I am conservative, and I am not going to compromise what I believe to fit in with the "cool" people, the majority, and those who want to discard God's law and truth. I am not claiming to be the best Christian example, because I am certainly not at this point in my life, so I won't pretend that I am, but I do see some very wrong and concerning things happening to Christians who once held a higher standard. And this goes far beyond who you supported or didn't support in this election.

Trump winning is not the deciding factor for the world's demise (same goes for if Hillary had won). In the eyes of God the election is nothing more than the world taking it's natural course. "Presidents don't really matter, because the kingdom of darkness is the kingdom of darkness, and we expect it to conduct itself in the way it does. Nations don't matter, presidents come and go, politicians come and go, nations come and go, the cycle of nations throughout all of human history. All of it is temporal, all of it is earthly, all of it passes away." -John MacArthur

We need to focus on coming together as brothers and sisters in Christ, taking care of each other, loving each other (unconditionally), instead of bickering about presidential candidates. No matter what, we need to stand by God's truths and not by man's (or the President's). The earth is temporal, but the Kingdom of God is everlasting. We need to put our focus on reaching out to the unsaved and loving them, and most of all uplifting and serving other fellow Christians instead of forming divisions among each other.

You can be the difference you want to see in the world. Yes, that sounds like a cheesy quote, but it's true.

[Pound Foolish]

I'm sorry, if to you, me being conservative means I am ill-informed, closed-minded, and sheltered.

It doesn't. Nobody has said it does. Also bear in mind, few of us are liberal. Our core beliefs, particularly abortion, are conservative.

However, I am talking about the VAST majority of people who are so incredibly biased and bent toward Hillary (the media, in particular) it is unbelievable.

Firstly, as an avid consumers of news, I can tell you I see the NYT, Fox, NBC and company say very hard things against Hillary and cover stories that reflected poorly on her more or less daily. All publications have bias. However, It is hard to see exceptional bias in favor of her.

Secondly, that is a provably wrong statement, according to The Economist:

"An analysis by researchers at Harvard’s Kennedy School of eight mainstream outlets, including CBS, the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, found they were more critical of Mrs Clinton than any other Republican or Democratic candidate. In the first six months of last year, she was the subject of three negative statements for every positive one; Mr Trump received two accolades for every carp. “Whereas media coverage helped build up Trump,” the researchers concluded, “It helped tear down Clinton.'"

[bookworm]

@ Pound Foolish: I'm not comparing Obama to Trump I was comparing their elections. Many Republicans deeply believed an Obama presidency would be disastrous to the country, but if they tried saying that after he won, even though they were making points about his policies, they were immediately shut down by "You're just upset a black man won, you're racist."

I think the point that bookworm is trying to highlight here is the double standard

I have multiple problems with it, but the clear double standard is the main one.
Only one side is able to vocally disapprove if they lose. If Clinton had won there may well have been protests by the other side, I'm not saying there wouldn't have been, my point is they wouldn't have been viewed the same way.

If Republicans were marching against Clinton there would be zero tolerance for it. Regardless of what they said they were protesting they would be told "You're just upset a woman won, you're sexist." But because it's the other way around and Democrats are the ones protesting there's not only tolerance for it, people nearly condone it. "They shouldn't be rioting, but it's certainly understandable that they are."
No, it's not understandable. Even if the underlying reason for the anger is valid riots are never acceptable. Lawful protests, yes. Violence and vandalism, never. They're not just illegal, they are completely stupid and pointless; they only hurt other citizens!

There's further double standard in how they are beginning to transition from just being outraged about the outcome in general to now irately rallying against the electoral college when everyone knows if Trump has won the popular vote but Clinton had won the election they would have absolutely no problem with it. The hypocrisy is so oppressively blatant it makes it nearly impossible to see valid arguments they may have hidden around in all the nonsense.

[Kathy0]

Ok, so I just want to say this... My little sisters sent a letter to Donald J. Trump after the first presidential debate. He's team sent the each a bumper sticker and a heartfelt letter in return. It was so sweet! They were jumping around THE PRESIDENT SENT ME A LETTER! It was so sweet. He is a good man.

[Knight Fisher]

This thread is disturbingly reminiscent of my Facebook feed this week. Lots of arguing. No recipes.

Clinton vs Trump should have been a moot point. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -5565.html

This NC Governor race is going to take awhile to play out.

[Pound Foolish]

I'm not comparing Obama to Trump I was comparing their elections

You're comparing the losing parties' reactions in the two instances. This is a poor comparison. The candidates were nothing alike because of the reasons already stated. Republicans reacted to an entirely different candidate winning than Democrats are. The two cases, to repeat, are not remotely similar.

[bookworm]

This is straying into arguing the level of justification the outrage has; the underlying point was even if it's 100% justified manifesting it in violence is not.

[Pound Foolish]

Excellent point, consider it conceded.

Fortunately most of the protests are not violent. It's heartening to see people don't want this, that they care.