one of the strictest universities EVER

[PonysHorses]

I don't think it is that bad. In fact, if they did not have the rules about no CCM and the rules about no above G movies, I would maybe go there.

[Chandler]

I must've missed the memo that said you'll go to hell if you don't follow X university's rules.

I think the colleges missed the memo too. Let me put it this way... if you were to work at Target they might ask you to wear a red shirt right? Would you call them legalistic if you applied knowing this and they hired you and you wanted to wear green instead? In the same way some colleges hold to certain rules and standards. That doesn't make them any more legalistic than Target unless you can prove that they'll call you "unsaved" for it.

"Strictness" is in the eye of the beholder. That is, "strict" is one of the most relative terms in the English language.

A rule that one person may call "strict" another may call "loose." Reality tells us that across the wide spectrum of Christianity, there are many different levels of standards and rules. I for one think that BJU is quite loose in some areas--particularly Pre-Marital Divorce Training Exercises, a.k.a. dating.

I believe Paul addresses this issue in Romans 14. Back then, instead of CCM, skirts, and movie ratings, they dealt with eating meat and observing special feast days. Paul says (NASB): "Let not him who eats regard with contempt him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has accepted him."

Some issues are grey areas, and some are not. I think Paul is calling Christians--from BJU to Pensecola, to us individually--to not excessively quibble over standards, but rather examine our convictions (or lack of them) before God, and see if they are Scriptural.

This is a very good point. You see, some Christians already live like those rules. They dress conservatively, they don't listen to rock music, they don't watch TV/movies, etc. Since that's what they're used to they'll find less difficulty in following the rules at college. If they're not hooked onto rock music they can't go through withdrawals by attending there right?

Hmm... remember what happened when the Jews starting making man-made rules?

That's a fine line you're walking there. Some of the rules were more strict in order to try to prevent people from sinning. That in and of itself isn't horrible. Nor was following the Law. Jesus Himself told the people of that day to do that. What Jesus really got on was the hypocritical stances many of them took. They piled on little laws while breaking the big ones.
Further, that doesn't really apply here because we're talking about a voluntary organization vs. a religion leading to salvation. If your boss tells you to get to work on time that may be a man-made rule but it's one you'd better follow if you want to keep your job. In the same way if you want to be part of this college then plan to follow their rules!

It just seems anyone graduating from that place is going to hit the real world and be totally unable to function in society

Since they'll likely attract people who are already like that these people must be basket cases already.

(More seriously I find it a problem when Christians mock at the beliefs of other Christians. Makes me wonder which side is being proven right...)

[Jonathan]

(More seriously I find it a problem when Christians mock at the beliefs of other Christians. Makes me wonder which side is being proven right...)

I don't think this was aimed at me, but I wasn't mocking, just for the record.

-Jonathan

[David O]

I always find BJU discussions interesting, because for much of my life I believed I was going to be attending there. I have studied the BJU curriculum much of my life while homeschooling. I actually spent three years taking all of my classes with real teachers through the BJU sattelite program. I attended their science and music camps for two years, and thoroughly enjoyed them. I know several who attended BJU including my Youth Pastor.

Periodically, discussions come up spewing about how insane this ultra-fundamental college is, and how BJU is legalistic and hypocrital. It always both amuses and bothers me.

I could write a lot, but I'm really tired right now and it's very late.

Basic things to throw out there:

Bob Jones the 3rd once said that anyone who agreed with all of BJU's rules was crazy.

Those that choose to attend BJU do know what they're getting into, and yes, there are many people in the world that can live with the rules that BJU has, myself included. Honestly, there's nothing to radically extreme in the rules. There are just regulations that you clearly aren't used to. No movies over G? So what? There's a lot better things you can do than watch movies. No games with a T, M, or A rating? Okay, I love gaming, and will miss Halo 2, but there's still quality pieces like Civilization 3 to keep me busy. No CCM or above music? Obviously most people have different music tastes than those at BJU, but I would be willing to give them up for the time that I'm there.

If you "can't live" without the things BJU is cutting out, then perhaps you have too much importance placed on those things. It's not that everyone at BJU considers every T or even M game and every Rock song to be bad, it's just that the directors of BJU have chosen to keep their school above a certain standard. You're not a sinner if you don't agree with the standard, however if you attend the school, knowing the rules in place, then you are sinning if you disobey the rules.

My Youth Pastor came out of BJU, and he's the bomb. He listened to sweet music, played sweet games, and watched sweet movies before attending BJU, and still does. He merely chose to subject himself to the authority over him while at college. While I wouldn't choose to put myself under thase regulations for four years of my life, I could and I could be content finding my delight in God if that was His will.

So there are my divers thoughts... I hope I don't have to write again...

[Eugene Blackgaard]

David O: voice of reason.

You make some very good points, David! If we are not willing to give those things up, we need to examine our hearts.

[Bmuntz]

There intention is good by don't allowing a PG movie is over the top if you ask me.

[Dr. Watson]

There intention is good by don't allowing a PG movie is over the top if you ask me.

That depends. I personally think the MPAA rating system is totally down the tubes. I think that there are PG-13 movies (LOTR one of them) that are acceptable, but many PG's that are not. Remember, the people who rate these movies are secular; thus, they do not communicate the true appropriateness of a movie.

I think BJU is merely heeding the motto, "Better safe than sorry" and banning all PG movies. Otherwise, they would have to evaluate on a movie-to-movie basis, which is a lot of hassle.

Cheerio

[The Top Crusader]

It would be sort of nice of them to maybe try to have a "Not Rated G, yet approved" movie list... for some various classics and such.

[Jeremy]

Hmm... remember what happened when the Jews starting making man-made rules?

That's a fine line you're walking there. Some of the rules were more strict in order to try to prevent people from sinning.

And did it work? No. External rules cannot prevent people from sinning. Why? Because it is out of the heart of man that evil things proceed.

Even the Law was given so that sin would increase, the Bible says.

That in and of itself isn't horrible. Nor was following the Law. Jesus Himself told the people of that day to do that. What Jesus really got on was the hypocritical stances many of them took. They piled on little laws while breaking the big ones.
Further, that doesn't really apply here because we're talking about a voluntary organization vs. a religion leading to salvation. If your boss tells you to get to work on time that may be a man-made rule but it's one you'd better follow if you want to keep your job. In the same way if you want to be part of this college then plan to follow their rules!

I think it applies totally. The Jewish Rabbis' man-made rules were "a religion leading to salvation"??? Not even the Law saved anyone--it was given so that sin would actually increase and show our desparate need for a Savior!

"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery." (Galatians 5:1 NASB.)

The point is not just whether or not they make it a salvation issue. It can very much be legalism without anyone making it a salvation issue.

Otherwise, they would have to evaluate on a movie-to-movie basis, which is a lot of hassle.

What ever happened to having personal freedom and liberty in Christ? Why should they even be telling you what movies you can or cannot watch and in off-campus homes, and whether or not you can go to movie theatres? That is trying to take over the role of the Holy Spirit. It is not right. Why should they have that control over your life? It goes against everything the NT instructs.

Jeremy

[Eugene Blackgaard]

Exellent points as well, Jeremy.

[Dr. Watson]

External rules cannot prevent people from sinning. Why? Because it is out of the heart of man that evil things proceed.

"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery." (Galatians 5:1 NASB.)

Do you then propose to go without rules entirely? Do you think that all rules are "slavery"? I daresay you don't. The Bible obviously has rules and principles for living. It is not insinuating that because we are freed from the Mosaic Law, that we can do anything we want to i.e. antinomianism, or no law.

Of course, we must have rules. The question is, what rules are regarded as "slavery" and "strict"? I again repeat that strict is an extremely relative term. I'm sure homosexuals think Christians are strict because the Bible says homosexuality is wrong. Mafia members would think Christians are strict because we are against murder, theft, etc.

Thus where do we draw the line at "strict"? Where is "strictness"? Again, I propose that we each examine our current standards and evaluate them based on God's Word.

What ever happened to having personal freedom and liberty in Christ?

Of course, we do have "personal freedom and liberty in Christ" but Paul explicity warns us not to make another brother stumble with our liberties. Many Christians are offended at rock music and M-rated games!

Why should they have that control over your life?

Because, my dear man, you applied to the college fully recognizing and accepting their rules and standards while you were attending.

Cheerio

[Eugene Blackgaard]

Also good points Watson! My what a volley of points! 0_o

[Dr. Watson]

15-love, my favor. Jeremy's serve.

[Jeremy]

External rules cannot prevent people from sinning. Why? Because it is out of the heart of man that evil things proceed.

"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery." (Galatians 5:1 NASB.)

Do you then propose to go without rules entirely? Do you think that all rules are "slavery"? I daresay you don't. The Bible obviously has rules and principles for living. It is not insinuating that because we are freed from the Mosaic Law, that we can do anything we want to i.e. antinomianism, or no law.

What I said was that external rules cannot prevent people from sinning. That is true. What can prevent us from sinning (I don't mean sinlessness here)? The Holy Spirit regenerating our spirit and indwelling us and guiding/leading us, and changing us from the inside out/changing our hearts. (This is internal.)

What ever happened to having personal freedom and liberty in Christ?

Of course, we do have "personal freedom and liberty in Christ" but Paul explicity warns us not to make another brother stumble with our liberties. Many Christians are offended at rock music and M-rated games!

I was not talking about making another brother stumble. But even with that, yes Paul says don't cause your brother to stumble (with foods, rock music, etc., etc.). But Paul does not tell us to "regulate" these things, because someone might stumble because of them. Again, it should be a personal thing.

Why should they have that control over your life?

Because, my dear man, you applied to the college fully recognizing and accepting their rules and standards while you were attending.

That is not my problem. My concern is with the college even wanting to take over the role of the Holy Spirit in a person's life, to any degree.

Jeremy

[Eugene Blackgaard]

Now, what is your belief on, say, a Junior High having rules like mine does (or did, It's been a while since I was in jr. High). For example, when we had sleepovers, the boys take a room at the church. One of our rules, however, was the have the girls sleep at one of the girls house, rather than take another room at the church. This was simply to assure there was no "monkey buisness," and so no one would even be tempted to do anything foolish.

I believe some rules can be good things, but I also believe we have a certain liberty in Christ. So I agree with Watson and Jeremy on points.

[Jeremy]

Eugene Blackgaard,

Your example is fine, IMO. That's a totally different thing than what I was talking about. That didn't really have anything to do with someone's personal freedom in Christ.

Jeremy

[Eugene Blackgaard]

Right, that's what I assumed, I just wanted to see how that lined up, just in case.

[PonysHorses]

What is with all these LONG posts?!?

[Eugene Blackgaard]

*suddenly stops wondering why she's voting for mellow*

sorry about tat in the futur i will try tyo appeal to your interest group as well. is this helping?

No matter what one does, someone will always have a problem with it.

[Trent DeWhite]

*suddenly stops wondering why she's voting for mellow*

I resent that statement!

Even though I'm neither Mellow nor Elf.