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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:44 pm 
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@church: I can't help it if the Mafia don't send a kill...

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:35 pm 
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Max did his normal things around town his run and going to the town square and when saw Astronomer and Woody fighting on who to kill he broke in and said "Do either of you have proof?????"

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:00 pm 
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Vic walked up to the little group of people gathered around Knight Fisher's body.
"So, there are accusations against me?" she asked, crossing her arms over her chest. "Hmm. I guess it's understandable. Our numbers are shrinking and that means that us still alive have a bigger chance of dying. I can understand Woody's argument. As far as I can tell, it's the best you guys have to work with. I'm not happy that your evidence (or lack thereof) may kill me but hey, why fight against something that is only an unfortunate coincidence?" Vic grimaced. "Do we HAVE to vote tonight?"

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:29 pm 
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You don't have to, as you voted yesterday. But anybody who didn't vote yesterday does.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:42 am 
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Church, ate a gumball on a toothpick. His model Sears tower hadn't survived the earthquake test he tried last night. Apparently the structure couldn't survive a simulated 15.7 earthquake. He'd have to redesign the whole thing to make it more stable.

"Woody, yesterday you thought bookworm was the most likely person to be mafia, what changed?" He said while chewing the gum. "As far as I know, all you have on Vic is that she's female and active. If there's something else, please let us know." Church sat down into a chair and leaned back. "I'm not saying I think she's innocent, but I would rather vote for someone we have something on than for someone just because they're female. We have all the reasons from yesterday for Bookworm, plus I'll go ahead and add that he was leading the bandwagon to kill our jailkeeper, JC. In fact, there isn't a single thing to be said in bookworm's defense really. He's only voted for innocent people. He's argued very strongly for the lynches in fact. He's the obvious target for mafia since we lost the jailkeeper, with moontide being the the second choice. I don't see ANY reason not to vote bookworm this round, do you?"

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:32 am 
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You make some good points, church. And if this "clue" hadn't happened, I would still be most suspicious of bookworm. As I stated before, I'm not sure what to think. I wish I knew if this clue from Monty was real. Then I would have a better idea of who to vote for. Though, now that I think about it more throughly(sp), I realize that trying to find one of the male members of the Mafia is more likely, as three of the four remaining females are probably going to be mod killed, then either a Mafia is already dead, or we know who to kill the next day(If the clue is real). The best way for today to work out would be if 2 Mafia die.(Which is possible, if the female Mafia is one of the three that are probably going to be mod killed.(Of course, the two that are town vote today.)) I think that what we need is the Receiving Cop's results. It would make our chances of finding a Mafia much better. So, Receiving Cop, PLEASE reveal the results!

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:25 am 
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bookworm arrived at the scene visibly still addled over the events of the previous day. Of course he was relieved to survive the close vote, but the fact that the vote was so close caused concern of its own. He composed himself and addressed the group.

“Once again I must resort to conferring with dead people, this time not due to my absence but to the Mafia kill. However now, as before, my statements address things that affect the players as a whole moving forward, so I will make them anyway.
Knight Fisher wrote:
It's not an insult. It's a fact. People use it to not stick out their necks. Go back to yesterday and last game and count how many people voted for someone because Bookworm did. It's unarguable.
Very well, let’s do that. *goes back and counts* No one did.
You have no way of knowing their motivation, you are assuming the only reason one follows me is because it was me. This is where the insult is, and yes, it is an insult.
I perfectly understand the point you’re making, but it’s simply unfounded.
There is no way to know who (if anyone) is following blindly and who is doing the right thing and drawing their own conclusions, because either way they are going to follow me. If it’s blindly it’s because I made the first move, but if it’s based on their own suspicions then they still follow me because they agree. The end result is the same, so there is no way to differentiate.

On another note, I think Astronomer has it right. There are strong cases either way for revealing or not revealing the investigation result. I can definitely see the draw for both, so I have been curious why the Receiving Cop hasn’t just put an end to this distracting speculation one way or the other. I think Astronomer may have it. It could be because I was right with one of my scenarios and the investigation was of someone important, so coming forward would put a target on them. On two people actually, as the Cop would also be revealed.

As to your poll of who is in favor of the reveal church, I can’t place myself on either side. You did have me accurately portrayed in your previous posts, as originally being against it but then considering coming around, but this new thought from Astronomer gives me pause all over again. It remains a very delicate and difficult situation.
On the other side though, assuming they did investigate me first, it would indeed put an end to this speculation and concern which of course I would be in favor of. But how safe that assumption is, I don’t know.”

He crossed his arms and waited for the inevitability that people would start claiming Knight Fisher’s death was an act of revenge proving his guilt.

“As for the more recent events, it’s very unprofessional for a GM to let something like that slip. If that ends up being a turning point in the game I will be quite upset.”

church wrote:
He's only voted for innocent people. He's argued very strongly for the lynches in fact.
“Excuse me?” bookworm interjected with an expression of both confusion and ire. You’re accusing me because I haven’t happened to vote for a Mafia yet? I’ll have you know that the same can be said about several players. That’s the point of this game. If you have no hard evidence, of course not every vote is going to land on your side.
And when did I ‘argue very strongly’ here? I never argued for anyone to follow me in who I voted for, the only time I was strong was in explaining my own actions so they wouldn’t be misconstrued. Ironically, that is what is now being misconstrued. This is why I can hate this game, people just throw reason out the window and start acting brashly.”

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:14 pm 
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"When they agree with you it's acting with reason, when they don't it's acting brashly? You're disguising your pushes for people's lynches as just explaining your actions. People who agree with you you support, and you attack any disagreement with you as unlogical, brash, or irrational. Other people vote based on very little, but they don't make huge arguments as to why they're right. Most of the time they'll even say they don't have much reason to vote for the person. You on the other hand make it sound like if people don't vote for that person aren't thinking.

As I said earlier, anyone delaying the revealing of the investigation results or not taking a side in it was effectively against it. It no longer matters if the person reveals the results because we no longer have time to confirm it. Anyone could lie about it. I strongly suspect whoever got the results hasn't been around at all.

For your votes, everyone knows your good at this game. You're practically a legend here. What are the odds you would get every single pick you've made this game are wrong?

I suppose you have a different explaination for KF's death?"

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:29 pm 
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church wrote:
Other people vote based on very little, but they don't make huge arguments as to why they're right.
“Other people don’t have to. I’m seen to be such an important player in these games that if I don’t explain why I vote how I did, and then it turns out to be a bad vote, people take it as conclusive proof of my guilt. See several past games for examples.
I often say I’m not positive with my votes, that doesn’t mean I don’t vote. When you don’t have anything solid you make the best choice based on what you do have. That is what I always do, and that is what I explain as I do it. They aren’t ‘huge’ arguments, they’re simply the reasoning behind my actions. Reasoning that if I don’t provide it makes people suspicious of me. But it turns out when I do provide it that makes them suspicious of me, so apparently I just can’t win.”
church wrote:
People who agree with you you support, and you attack any disagreement with you as unlogical, brash, or irrational.
“Please show where I have done this. If someone has a valid disagreement I have no reason to refute them, and I do not. Most of the time I will even acknowledge their point. But yes if someone is saying something illogical I describe it as illogical, brash I describe as brash, irrational I point out as irrational. Why would I not do that? Those are adjectives that do not describe winning teams in this game.”
church wrote:
You on the other hand make it sound like if people don't vote for that person aren't thinking.
“Again, please show where I have done this. Here too you are taking what I have said and completely turning it around. I never said anyone wasn’t thinking, I was the one disputing that people aren’t thinking. KF said they weren’t, I said they were. And it had nothing to do with whether they agree with me or not, it was about whether they’re going along blindly or if they are drawing their own conclusions.”
church wrote:
What are the odds you would get every single pick you've made this game are wrong?
“The same odds everyone has in any game where there isn’t much evidence to go on. This is the faulty reasoning people tend to have about me. Because I am seen to be rather skilled in my deductions, they expect me to get it right every time, meaning that when I get it wrong I must not be trying, therefore I’m Mafia. What they don’t seem to realize is that whatever deductive skill one may have, the deductions themselves are only as solid as what they are drawn from. The most skillful deducer in the world can’t be expected to make the right moves 100% of the time if there is nothing to deduce from.”
church wrote:
I suppose you have a different explaination for KF's death?
“Only the same explanation for any other Mafia kill. They obviously saw him as the most strategic to take out.”

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Last edited by bookworm on Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:37 pm 
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“Only the same explanation for any other Mafia kill. They obviously saw him as the most strategic to take out.”


"And that's the heart of the matter isn't it? Most people would have picked you. If not you then likely moontide. The jailkeeper and the vote doubler picked you on the first night without anything but your reputation to go on.

Do you have any defense other than rhetoric? Anything at all that could be used to show you can be innocent other than just trying to talk your way out of a vote for you?"

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:44 pm 
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“There we are in complete agreement. In my mind either myself or Moontide, possibly both by now, should be dead. That is a valid point to use in suspecting me. The others are not. That is all I’ve been trying to say.

As for those two picking me right out, I don’t see how it means anything if what you’re getting at is that maybe they had early suspicions for some reason. Neither was able to investigate, so they couldn’t have had anything tangible.

Rhetoric? I consider my defense to be rather sound thus far. Whether people think it’s ‘enough’ isn’t my fault, but I’ve been refuting points worth refuting when they came up, which is what any valid defense consists of. It’s not ‘talking’ your way out, it’s introducing logic, the most necessary component in these games, back into the discussion.

Do I have anything more I could use to defend myself? Most likely not, I would have used it by now.
The only other thing I can think of is that one mysterious investigation that is still out there. We seem to be approaching the end game rather quickly, so I think, even though I still have a few slight misgivings, we should grasp the one perhaps last chance of enlightenment we have, and get the investigation result out once and for all. If it was indeed about me, you’ll finally have your answer. If it was someone else, at least you’ll know about them.
Unfortunately, you may be correct that the Receiving Cop is one of the inactive players. That would account for their seemingly stubborn refusal to come forward.”

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:29 pm 
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"No, you talk. There isn't a reason not to vote for you other than that, talk. Actions speak much louder than words, and I don't see much in the way of actions for your defense. Apparently, neither do you.

VOTE: BOOKWORM

No, the investigation is meaningless now. We don't have time to check if the person is lieing about what they say. If a mafia were to lie about it now and we listened we'd be dead before we knew we had been lied to."

Church knew what getting this wrong meant. He also knew that right now Bookworm was the best person to vote for. He thought either bookworm or moontide should have been killed by now and the other lynched, but both being alive was something of an oddity. Easy now, He told himself. You overthink this too much and you'll start talking in an annoying voice and saying things like 'inconcievable'.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:40 pm 
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“So be it. My next move should be obvious.

vote: church

He now waited for the second inevitability, that people would claim this counter vote further sealed his guilt, but he didn’t care anymore. This was the proper thing to do, if people took it wrong, like most everything else he had been doing, then there just wasn’t any point in trying to fight it.”

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:49 pm 
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i mean rad prob investigated bookworm or church and i got the role church and he is a Mafia so my vote
Vote: Church

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:27 pm 
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i mean rad prob investigated bookworm or church and i got the role church and he is a Mafia so my vote


"Can you rephrase that please?"

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:31 pm 
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I think he is saying that he is the receiving cop and that Rad investigated you and that you are mafia. Which brings up several questions: Why did he not reveal such information before? Why does it just happen to be about you, and that you are mafia? I mean, perhaps Maxwell is just revealing it now because it is relevant, but it raises some questions.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:53 pm 
I'll catch up to Bren!
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Now I'm REALLY confused! Max, why didn't you reveal this before? It makes me quite suspicious of you. I'm not going to vote just yet. Monty, when is the deadline? Though, last time people trusted Max to be the inspector(Odyssey Mafia V2) it turned out quite well.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:56 am 
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If Bookworm was a town he would be dead by now. The jailkeeper is dead so he can't protect bookworm the mafia would eat him up like a pie.
Vote: Bookworm

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:59 am 
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Hmm.... I hadn't thought about it that way. It is true. Since the Jailkeeper died the next logical move for the Mafia to make would be to kill bookworm. In fact, my belief is that the Mafia did attack bookworm. The night after the Jailkeeper died. In other words, bookworm is the Mafia Traitor.

Vote: Bookworm

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Eight (Day Two)
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:42 am 
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Astronomer wrote:
I think he is saying that he is the receiving cop and that Rad investigated you and that you are mafia. Which brings up several questions: Why did he not reveal such information before? Why does it just happen to be about you, and that you are mafia? I mean, perhaps Maxwell is just revealing it now because it is relevant, but it raises some questions.



Oh, well that's 2 confirmed mafia then. I don't see a mafia faking that to save a townie.

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