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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:01 am 
i haz xpirenancee!!1
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Sunshine wrote:
Um... I'm going to be gone during the weekend (leaving tomorrow, getting back in the later of Sunday, which means most likely not getting on until Monday). Will this put a conflict in playing? :\

((Since it is Monday today, I'm sure you'll be good :p))

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:53 pm 
I'll catch up to Bren!
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@Marvin: Yes, it's all good. We discussed it via PM.

And here's what happened last night:

An unidentified person was walking home, and was about to take a shortcut through the woods when they remembered that they had promised to be at a friend's house at this time. The friend's house was in the other direction, so this unidentified person changed their route and turned away from the woods. Little did they know that their appointment with their friend(the Medic) had saved them from an unfortunate encounter with another unidentified person(a Mafia member) who was waiting for them in the woods.

It is now day. You can start voting now.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:03 pm 
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Arkán, being the first one at the town hall, began a game of Yukon Solitaire. The Mafia had been foiled. Good work on the Medic's part. But who to vote for today...

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:06 pm 
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JC smiled.

"My scheme worked, as far as I know.

But first, before I explain anything, I must:

VOTE: Blitz

I must also:

Role Claim: Medic

I suspected yesterday that Blitz was Mafia, because of his vague answers and seemingly random method of voting.

So, I voted for him, knowing that, if he was indeed Mafia, he would obviously try to kill the one person who openly suspected him.

So, last night, I saved myself. If the kill was not successful, I would be almost certain that Blitz is the killer.

Since the "un-named" person was indeed saved, I now know (almost) for certain that Blitz is indeed the mafia.

Just to let you know how serious I am; if I am wrong in my accusation, I will refrain from joining the next two rounds of Mafia.

Thank you."

JC was shaking uncontrolably, trying not to look Blitz in the eye.

"If I'm wrong about this... He thought, "This accusation could very easily ruin any further chances of me being believed in future games... I really hope I'm right about this."

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:42 pm 
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Arkán found this statement to be similar to strategies he had come up with in his past and was therefore very clever. Carried away by the cleverness of the strategy he
VOTE: Blitz
~JCGJ~ wrote:
Just to let you know how serious I am; if I am wrong in my accusation, I will refrain from joining the next two rounds of Mafia.[/i]

Don't do that. We'd hate to lose a player. This is ether true or very sneaky...
~JCGJ~ wrote:
This accusation could very easily ruin any further chances of me being believed in future games... I really hope I'm right about this.

I am willing to believe you even if you are wrong because it would be an accident if he's not Mafia.
Arkán sprang cards from one hand to the other.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:03 am 
I'll catch up to Bren!
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You have 72 hours left......

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:13 pm 
Autumn is a Glorious Season
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Arkán Dreamwalker wrote:
I am willing to believe you even if you are wrong because it would be an accident if he's not Mafia.
Arkán sprang cards from one hand to the other.

"Unless of course I'm Mafia myself, and am just completely lying through my teeth..." JC said to Arkán. "You should always consider that option with anybody, before you make a conclusion and believe him/her.

But, also keep in mind that, even if I were Mafia this time around, it would be completely foolish to jeapardize (sp) my reputation as a fairly honest player, just to win one game.

Just remember to keep all these things in mind when making a decision, and you should be fine."

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:26 pm 
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bookworm was visibly impressed by JCGJ’s words, but hesitated to fully accept the claim just yet.
“That sounds sensible on first hearing, but I’ll need to look it over more intently to check its reasoning. No offense, you understand. And regardless of whether it holds up I commend you highly for employing strategy!”
He went off by himself to think things over.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:34 pm 
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"Hey, I often don't take what you say as 100% either. You do what you have to...
I just wish Blitz would come and try to defend himself... I'd like to hear his response."

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:02 pm 
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Sunny walks into town as JCGJ does. She didn't sleep very well last night because she had a lot of things on her mind. When JCGJ tells them what happened last night, she expresses her relief that he was not killed. Once both JCGJ and Arkán state their votes, Sunny is now confident of her suspicions based on certain things she has seen. Now she speaks to them in a moderate, clear voice, making steady eye contact with both of them, "Gentlemen, I beg to differ with your reasoning. I completely understand where you're coming from in your suspicions, but please hear me out. I believe bookworm made the following quote yesterday:

bookworm wrote:
"it’s better to give me the benefit of the doubt until you have solid suspicions, in order to keep my aid available. "

'It is better to give me the benefit of the doubt,' he said, which basically implies 'innocent until proven guilty'. But I believe that in this such scenario, it is better to trust no one. So let's reverse what bookworm implied, and instead say 'guilty until proven innocent'. This means that Blitz, bookworm, Arkán, JCGJ, and myself are equally suspicious. Whether valuable or not, everyone are equally suspicious. Sadly, Monty and Joy were proven innocent by unfortunate accurances, but that is beside the point. JCGJ, I do not suspect you guilty, because you basically laid everything down on the line when you said that you are the medic.

"Now, yesterday, JCGJ, you said that you suspected Blitz, and you voted to have him killed. This means that the mafia knew of your suspicions before night came. If Blitz was mafia, would he really attempt to kill you? I wouldn't think so. This would make him even more of a suspect. Which brings me exactly to my point.

"The mafia had the perfect opportunity to frame Blitz, and they took the opportunity. bookworm, much of what you said is true, but I see a flaw in the statement you made (above quote). I really don't see that as being logical. But if everyone goes with what you said, any guilt coming towards you, I believe, you have the ability to deflect it on to someone else - which is exactly what you did.

"JCGJ, I believe that voting Blitz out would be a bad mistake." Sunny has a slight wish that none of this talk about the mafia were true, because she likes everyone here. A soft expression comes to her face, and she speaks in a quiet, but firm tone, "What better way then to 'believe your suspicions' and get Blitz out of here, doing the mafia a favor? If you think otherwise, then by all means vote as you think best.

"As much as I hold bookworm's wisdom in this game of value, I would hate to see this place become a ghost town, killed off by the mafia. Thus, I shall place my vote:

vote: bookworm

"I feel that bookworm's latest post is a confirmation to my theories.
bookworm wrote:
bookworm was visibly impressed by JCGJ’s words, but hesitated to fully accept the claim just yet.
“That sounds sensible on first hearing, but I’ll need to look it over more intently to check its reasoning. No offense, you understand. And regardless of whether it holds up I commend you highly for employing strategy!”
He went off by himself to think things over.
Noticing how he is supporting JCGJ's decisions, while making it seem that he himself is still deciding.

"I dislike accusing, but I believe that the conversation points to thus."

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Last edited by Sunshine on Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:27 pm 
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After a while bookworm returned to the group, prepared to give his findings on JCGJ’s remarks, but upon hearing that allegations against himself had resurfaced in his absence he first turned his attention to addressing those.

Sunshine wrote:
bookworm, much of what you said is true, but I see a flaw in the statement you made (above quote). I really don't see that as being logical.
“Sunshine,” he began, keeping his voice as calm as possible even though he was extremely annoyed, “I’m not going to say I think you’re guilty, but I will say that your statements certainly do not make you look innocent. It appears as if you are intentionally misquoting and misrepresenting me. If it was an honest mistake that’s fine, but I’m having a hard time believing it is because I thought I had just cleared this up.

I have never said I want people to give me a free pass no matter what. I have actually said the exact opposite. You say there is a flaw in ‘my’ quote, but what you fail to include is that I myself was quoting. I did not say to give me the benefit of the doubt, I said other players say that! But regardless of who said it, it baffles me that you claim to find it illogical. I just explained the logic behind it and it should not be difficult to grasp. Honestly, it’s like no one is paying attention when I go over this.
Let’s do it one more time.
Take an example where there are four players left, myself and three others. It is accepted as general consensus that my reasoning is a valuable asset if I’m on the Town’s side. If everyone is an equal suspect at the moment, of course it is logical to give me the benefit of the doubt in the interest of keeping said reasoning available for the next round. I’m really not seeing how you can’t understand why that is. If you have one person you believe is best to keep around as long as possible, and no reason at the moment to suspect them above anyone else, then you would vote out one of the others to keep that first one around. It is logical, and more than that it’s simply common sense.

Sunshine wrote:
I feel that bookworm's latest post is a confirmation to my theories.
Noticing how he is supporting JCGJ's decisions, while making it seem that he himself is still deciding.
“Are you serious? What is that supposed to even mean? Making it seem I’m still deciding? I was still deciding! How does that confirm your suspicions when I hid absolutely nothing you just said? You’re absolutely correct, I support JCGJ’s decision, because it’s obvious he is using strategy to try and make the best vote, why on earth would I not support that?! And you’re absolutely correct, I myself was still deciding, because as everyone should know by now, I never make a move like this without thoroughly analyzing the implications! Just because I like what JCGJ did doesn’t mean I’m going to immediately do it myself! I wasn’t hesitating to agree with him because I was trying to get out of it, I was simply waiting a few minutes to do my own analysis of his claims before returning to report what my decision was, something I was just about to do when you posted all this.”

Regaining composure, he returned to his original train of thought.

“JCGJ, I’ve looked over your presentation. It was a clever ploy, and you do present a strong case. I must point out though, that it isn’t as concrete as you make it seem. The reasoning is solid and your conclusion is perfectly valid. But there is a chance that the Mafia targeted you independently and the timing was just a fluke. I’m not saying that’s what did or didn’t happen here, because there’s no way of knowing, but it is a possibility.
As things stand though, with nothing else to go on at the moment, your conclusions are certainly strong enough to warrant a vote here.

vote: Blitz

~JCGJ~ wrote:
Just to let you know how serious I am; if I am wrong in my accusation, I will refrain from joining the next two rounds of Mafia.
“I would urge you to retract this statement. It’s good to be certain of your conclusions, but nothing in these games is ever 100% certain no matter how solid your reasoning, so you shouldn’t make extreme commitments like that.”

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:03 pm 
I love the ToO!
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bookworm wrote:
I said other players say that!

Sunny is a little startled by bookworm's outburst, but talks steadily, keeping good eye contact, as she says, "Saying that other players say that it is good to give you the benefit of the doubt to keep your aid available, is kind of saying that you believe that to be true about yourself. But I agree in that you are really good! I think that fact, though, keeps people from wanting to dare to vote for you, if you catch my meaning? :\

"I think that, like JCGJ, it's time to reveal that I'm the sheriff. I'm kind of putting myself on the line here, but at this point, I've already put myself on the line. I investigated you, bookworm, last night... and I found you to be mafia." Sunny hopes that she has done the right thing by revealing her role, "I was trying to bring your role to light some other way, but I'm not sure that I've done much good. From knowing that you are mafia, I believe it looks like Arkán is the Godfather, because if Blitz was the Godfather, you and he wouldn't have put himself at risk by attempting to kill JCGJ." :|

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:14 pm 
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“That changes everything, why didn’t you say it before? If you investigated me, that’s entirely different. I said from the start by all means vote for me if you have a valid reason. What you said before was not. What you said now certainly is. If you really are the Sheriff.”

Sunshine wrote:
I think that fact, though, keeps people from wanting to dare to vote for you, if you catch my meaning?
“Like I said in response to JCGJ’s original comments, it’s not about not ‘daring’ to vote for me, or being ‘brave’ enough to, it’s about whether or not there’s a genuine reason to. And if you do have that, then there should be absolutely no hesitation to bring that forward.”

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:29 pm 
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To know that God is in control is one thing, but to believe that truth, to stand on that truth, to live by that truth is completely different.

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"I just thought that if I could show everyone else how it's all connected, then I might not need to put myself on the line by revealing my role.

"'If you really are the Sheriff.' I would hope that people would know me well enough to know that I wouldn't lie, even for a game - but I'm fine letting people draw their own conclusions." =)

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:31 pm 
Autumn is a Glorious Season
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"In this instance, it would have been much more beneficial to simply role claim in the beginning instead of trying to convince us with reasoning (especially when someone else has a fairly solid case. That simply makes you look obstinate and slightly suspicious). Because, if you know for certain that bookworm is Mafia (which you do, if you truely are the Sherriff), revealing that would make our choice much more clear.

If you had revealed your role in the beginning, I would be much more willing to believe you...

However, I must think about it some, and I will get back to you with my final choice."

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:28 pm 
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Sunshine wrote:
I just thought that if I could show everyone else how it's all connected, then I might not need to put myself on the line by revealing my role.
“I can believe that. But the problem is that you didn’t show how anything was connected. Not clear enough for an induction-alone conviction anyway. You need the additional basis of your role in this particular case.”

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:31 pm 
Autumn is a Glorious Season
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"I must know before I make my final decision...

How many Mafia are there this round?"

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:38 pm 
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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:42 pm 
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There are two. This is a pathetically small game. >_>

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 Post Post subject: Re: Mafia Round Nine
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:06 pm 
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To know that God is in control is one thing, but to believe that truth, to stand on that truth, to live by that truth is completely different.

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bookworm wrote:
Sunshine wrote:
I just thought that if I could show everyone else how it's all connected, then I might not need to put myself on the line by revealing my role.
“I can believe that. But the problem is that you didn’t show how anything was connected. Not clear enough for an induction-alone conviction anyway. You need the additional basis of your role in this particular case.”

I was reading in the rules and such where it says that it is generally not good to reveal your role as sheriff.
"So, then, would you (from your experience and wisdom in this game) say that it is generally good to not reveal your role, so long as you can show connecting points to prove the case, or not?"

Edit:
~JCGJ~ wrote:
"If you had revealed your role in the beginning, I would be much more willing to believe you...

However, I must think about it some, and I will get back to you with my final choice."

"I see that the points I made were not valid points, and thus, I understand your questioning in what my true role is."

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Last edited by Sunshine on Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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