PHC - Questions Answered

[Peachey Keen]

I think some boys wear (boxer) shorts...

[bookworm]

I'm going to youth camp in about a week. I'll see how many of the girls are actually wearing braids.

I don’t think you ever got back to us on that.

[odysseyfan1]

I can't remember exactly now. I think I did see several.

-- 03 Oct 2011 08:49 pm --

I think some boys wear (boxer) shorts...

Hmm...who are you referring to? Some less-conservative "Holiness" people may wear them (like perhaps the Collingsworth Family?) but generally not the people I know.

[SoccerLOTR]

I can't remember exactly now. I think I did see several.

So....do you think that is wrong, according to the verses speaking against braided hair? If not...why?

[bookworm]

I think I did see several.

Okay, then that shows that hair styles can change according to the times.
So, like SoccerLOTR asked a while ago, how did you determine that those can change, but things like clothing styles can’t?

[odysseyfan1]

In those days women did not simply braid their hair, but weaved in expensive jewelry. So what's the difference of wearing jewelry in your hair or on your ear or neck or finger?

Most of the time when people start straying from their lifestyle standards, they go farther and farther until it's not just trimming their hair, but cutting it off down to where it is no longer very long. Same thing with jewelry. People wear a wedding ring, then a purity ring. Well, if they wear those, what's wrong with wearing a wedding band? And what about earrings? Necklaces? Nose rings? (OK, I know that may be going a bit far. ) We've got to draw a line somewhere. So instead of trying to make a big list of what and what not to wear, we simply look at the Bible, interpret what we think it's saying to us, and say: no jewelry. Do you guys understand?

[John Chrysostom]

No I don't understand, on one hand you're saying that you interpret the Bible to say no jewelry, an interpretation I have yet to understand, but then on the other hand you say We've got to draw a line somewhere; the wording of which suggests an arbitrary nature to the line drawing since it can be anywhere. So which is it? Do you arbitrarily draw the line in an attempt to keep from going down a slippery slope, going beyond what the Bible says? Or is there an actual Bible verse which says no jewelry?

You say you don't want to write up a list of what you can or cannot wear so you just issue a blanket ban, how is that different? Isn't this getting awfully close to legalism? And caring more for outward appearances than what's in the heart?

[bookworm]

People wear a wedding ring, then a purity ring. Well, if they wear those, what's wrong with wearing a wedding band? And what about earrings? Necklaces? Nose rings? (OK, I know that may be going a bit far. )

Yes that is going a bit far. It’s ridiculous to compare a wedding ring to flamboyant jewelry.
I believe we’ve had this discussion before so we don’t need to go into it again, but to briefly reiterate, I can see no reason to ban wedding rings in the name of honoring God. God is honored through holy marriages, so how can it dishonor him to wear a sign of that marriage? You don’t wear a wedding ring as jewelry, you wear it as a sign of your commitment to your spouse. There is a difference between wedding rings and arbitrary jewelry. It’s the meaning and mindset behind it.

So if you’re going to say ‘If we okay wedding rings, why not all jewelry’ there’s a simple answer to that! It’s because the wedding ring means something, and jewelry does not. So if you want to ban jewelry because it’s pointless, fine that’s up to you. But there’s a clear difference between that and wedding rings, so the slippery slope argument doesn’t work in that situation.

[Dr. Watson]

Nose rings are Biblical--see the story of Eleazar finding Rebekah at the well, and the allegory of God choosing Israel in Ezekiel.

[odysseyfan1]

People wear a wedding ring, then a purity ring. Well, if they wear those, what's wrong with wearing a wedding band? And what about earrings? Necklaces? Nose rings? (OK, I know that may be going a bit far. )

Yes that is going a bit far. It’s ridiculous to compare a wedding ring to flamboyant jewelry.
I believe we’ve had this discussion before so we don’t need to go into it again, but to briefly reiterate, I can see no reason to ban wedding rings in the name of honoring God. God is honored through holy marriages, so how can it dishonor him to wear a sign of that marriage? You don’t wear a wedding ring as jewelry, you wear it as a sign of your commitment to your spouse. There is a difference between wedding rings and arbitrary jewelry. It’s the meaning and mindset behind it.

So if you’re going to say ‘If we okay wedding rings, why not all jewelry’ there’s a simple answer to that! It’s because the wedding ring means something, and jewelry does not. So if you want to ban jewelry because it’s pointless, fine that’s up to you. But there’s a clear difference between that and wedding rings, so the slippery slope argument doesn’t work in that situation.

So you're against "arbitrary" jewelry?

[bookworm]

So you're against "arbitrary" jewelry?

No. I agree that it’s pointless, but I wouldn’t classify myself as ‘against’ it because I don’t think it’s wrong to wear if you want to. I just don’t know why you’d want to.

[odysseyfan1]

But you do see my point? It's a slippery slope, so we just don't wear any.

[bookworm]

No I don’t see your point, because I just explained why it isn’t a slippery slope.
There is a clear and easy to explain difference between wedding rings and jewelry.
So if some girl tells her parents ‘We wear wedding rings, why can’t I wear earrings’ they simply explain why there’s a difference.

[odysseyfan1]

OK, so why not wear wedding bands or purity rings?

[bookworm]

Do you hunt?
(I’m not avoiding the question, I’ll get back to it.)

[odysseyfan1]

Yeah, why?

[bookworm]

But guns are used to kill people, which is sinful.
Do we ban all use of guns then? No, of course not. We explain the difference between right and wrong use of them.
The only similarity between shooting animals and shooting people is that they both use a gun. Otherwise, the two are completely separate acts. It’s not the item being used, it’s the reason behind it that makes it right or wrong.

Same with rings. Wedding rings have a good, even holy, reason behind them. Arbitrary jewelry rings do not. The only similarity is that they are both rings. That isn’t a reason to ban rings themselves, it’s a reason to distinguish the difference in their uses.

[odysseyfan1]

You didn't answer my question about bands and purity rings. If it was just a wedding ring, maybe it wouldn't be such a big deal for us, but is IS opening the door. Especially when there's other "good" jewelry like purity rings. Also, wedding rings are not neccesary.

[bookworm]

You didn't answer my question about bands and purity rings.

I’m still getting back to it. Be patient.

wedding rings are not neccesary.

Neither are guns.


So to lay it out (as the parent might to that girl asking about the difference):

Why jewelry could be labeled ‘bad’:
It has no purpose except to show off your physical appearance. Does not please God. Might even displease Him if it becomes a pride issue.

Why wedding rings are not in that category:
They have a purpose, they are a visible sign of your love and commitment to your spouse. Please God, because you are showing the world that you honor His holy bond of marriage.

Now based on that, we’ll move to wedding bands and purity rings.
Wedding bands are just another term for wedding rings, so I already addressed that.
Purity rings would also fall into the second category, because they have a God pleasing purpose. They are a sign to the world that you follow God’s guidelines.

But, this is still not a slippery slope. A slippery slope is when one thing could lead to another and another, because there is no distinction. Here, there is a clear distinction. Wedding ring leading to purity ring is not a slippery slope, because they are in the same category. And as long as you keep the categories in mind, it will never become a slippery slope, because a meaningful ring leading to an arbitrary ring crossover is impossible.

I’m not trying, or even wanting, to change your opinion. I’m just explaining why I don’t agree with it.

[odysseyfan1]

You didn't answer my question about bands and purity rings.

I’m still getting back to it. Be patient.

wedding rings are not neccesary.

Neither are guns.


So to lay it out (as the parent might to that girl asking about the difference):

Why jewelry could be labeled ‘bad’:
It has no purpose except to show off your physical appearance. Does not please God. Might even displease Him if it becomes a pride issue.

Why wedding rings are not in that category:
They have a purpose, they are a visible sign of your love and commitment to your spouse. Please God, because you are showing the world that you honor His holy bond of marriage.

Now based on that, we’ll move to wedding bands and purity rings.
Wedding bands are just another term for wedding rings, so I already addressed that.
Purity rings would also fall into the second category, because they have a God pleasing purpose. They are a sign to the world that you follow God’s guidelines.

But, this is still not a slippery slope. A slippery slope is when one thing could lead to another and another, because there is no distinction. Here, there is a clear distinction. Wedding ring leading to purity ring is not a slippery slope, because they are in the same category. And as long as you keep the categories in mind, it will never become a slippery slope, because a meaningful ring leading to an arbitrary ring crossover is impossible.

I’m not trying, or even wanting, to change your opinion. I’m just explaining why I don’t agree with it.

I don't know though. In our denomination, some people "just wanted the wedding band." And now they've let down on a lot of their convictions and look just like a sinner in the world. Maybe it's different for you. Also, guns are nessecary to kill animals to eat.