Dave Ramsey and Getting Rich Quick

[American Eagle]

lol, yeah. The only thing I don't like about Dave Ramsay, is that sometimes he says bad words (God, ect.) My Mom loves his advice.

Wow! First of all, AE was being sarcastic. (hence his wink and my lol) At least that's how I interpreted it and what I hope he meant. Anyway, Dave Ramsey is an ignorant, arrogant, false-teacher who does the work of the devil. Of course that's a whole 'nother issue that I'd love to debate in a different thread but... he's not exactly a Christian teacher... like at all.

*facepalm*

You're entitled to your opinion, KBT, but please know; saying stuff like that makes you look just like this crazy church. From past posts, I know you're really into "God hates you having money" or something like that, but that does NOT mean you can call other Christians "workers of the devil" because they believe in debt-free living.

I agree with Ramsey. Does that make me a devil-worker too? Calling anyone a false teacher over money is worse than Bible versions.

Unless, of course, you were just being sarcastic...

[King Butter Turtle]

lol, yeah. The only thing I don't like about Dave Ramsay, is that sometimes he says bad words (God, ect.) My Mom loves his advice.

Wow! First of all, AE was being sarcastic. (hence his wink and my lol) At least that's how I interpreted it and what I hope he meant. Anyway, Dave Ramsey is an ignorant, arrogant, false-teacher who does the work of the devil. Of course that's a whole 'nother issue that I'd love to debate in a different thread but... he's not exactly a Christian teacher... like at all.

*facepalm*

Ha! You did kind of ask for it when you said this. V

What on earth could you have against Dave Ramsey?! The man gives sound financial advise, for pity's sake.

You're entitled to your opinion, KBT, but please know; saying stuff like that makes you look just like this crazy church.

I'm sorry. How does believing that the health, wealth and prosperity gospel is wrong make me look as crazy as this church? It's actually a very common belief. Even your own Paul Washer believes it.

From past posts, I know you're really into "God hates you having money" or something like that, but that does NOT mean you can call other Christians "workers of the devil" because they believe in debt-free living.

Wow! That's not at all what I said. First of all, perhaps "worker of the devil" was a little strong. I don't believe he's a satanist or anything; I just meant that he leads people to materialism and idolatry and away from Jesus... which is pretty much what the devil does. Second of all, my dislike for Dave Ramsey isn't at all rooted in his belief of debt-free living. I believe in debt-free living. (Actually, more so than Dave Ramsey, since he believes in mortgages. ) My dislike for him is rooted in his encouragement of Christians to pursue wealth.

Calling anyone a false teacher over money is worse than Bible versions.

Oh my goodness! Calling some one a false teacher over Bible versions is utterly foolish and stupid. It doesn't matter what version of the Bible you read. However, how you spend God's money says a lot about you and your relationship with Christ.

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The New International Version is not the root of all kinds of evils but, the love of money is. Thus, money is a more important topic about which to have sound doctrine than Biblical translations.

[American Eagle]

How does believing that the health, wealth and prosperity gospel is wrong make me look as crazy as this church?

From my perspective, the "health, wealth and prosperity gospel" is along the lines of getting saved so God can bless you immensely and give you heaven on earth. Everything's going to be bliss and happiness, etc. Ramsey doesn't teach that. He says for Christians to get out of debt and invest the money God has given them.

Are you sure you aren't getting Ramsey mixed up with Joel Olsteen?

Even your own Paul Washer believes it.

How dare you bring up Washer at a time like this!

My dislike for him is rooted in his encouragement of Christians to pursue wealth.

Hmm; I don't actually disagree with you here. Should our goal to be to amass wealth, get a high-paying job, buy a massive house and make sure we have money galore for retirement? Certainly not! Our purpose on this earth is to spread the Gospel and bring glory to God. Money should be nothing more than a tool to accomplish that.

What really set me off was the "worker of the devil" line. I know many people who once were in financial debt, but are now free from it. They are now able to give more to missions and the spread of the Gospel! (I know this to be true in some cases, while obviously some will decide to be selfish with God's gifts.) If God can use someone like Dave Ramsey to allow Christians to be able to support missionaries, churches and evangelism, so be it. I don't believe we ought to referring to our brothers-or-sisters in Christ as "heretics" (see the posts before ours; I never knew C.S. Lewis was one ), workers or the devil, etc., unless they out-right blaspheme our Savior.

[King Butter Turtle]

How does believing that the health, wealth and prosperity gospel is wrong make me look as crazy as this church?

From my perspective, the "health, wealth and prosperity gospel" is along the lines of getting saved so God can bless you immensely and give you heaven on earth. Everything's going to be bliss and happiness, etc. Ramsey doesn't teach that. He says for Christians to get out of debt and invest the money God has given them.

He teaches that if you do wise things with your money and tithe, God will bless you with wealth to use for your own enjoyment. I hate to break it to you but, that's the health, wealth and prosperity gospel.

Are you sure you aren't getting Ramsey mixed up with Joel Olsteen?

I can't seem to find any good quotes of him talking about Joel Olsteen but, trust me; they're great friends. Olsteen has been interviewed on the the Dave Ramsey Show (both radio and TV), they did a webcast together and Ramsey endorses Olsteen's books and fully supports and praises his "ministry". That should be a major red flag that all of Dave Ramsey's garbage is something that Christians need to avoid.

What really set me off was the "worker of the devil" line. I know many people who once were in financial debt, but are now free from it. They are now able to give more to missions and the spread of the Gospel! (I know this to be true in some cases, while obviously some will decide to be selfish with God's gifts.) If God can use someone like Dave Ramsey to allow Christians to be able to support missionaries, churches and evangelism, so be it. I don't believe we ought to referring to our brothers-or-sisters in Christ as "heretics" (see the posts before ours; I never knew C.S. Lewis was one ), workers or the devil, etc., unless they out-right blaspheme our Savior.

Again, "Worker of the Devil" might have been a little strong but, he leads people away from Jesus and into selfish, greedy, materialistic idolatry. That's wrong!

[American Eagle]

Are you sure you aren't getting Ramsey mixed up with Joel Olsteen?

I can't seem to find any good quotes of him talking about Joel Olsteen but, trust me; they're great friends. Olsteen has been interviewed on the the Dave Ramsey Show (both radio and TV), they did a webcast together and Ramsey endorses Olsteen's books and fully supports and praises his "ministry". That should be a major red flag that all of Dave Ramsey's garbage is something that Christians need to avoid.

Touché, and snap! After doing some checking, I found you to be accurate... I didn't know they were supportive of each other. That really is disappointing.

I'm not going to shun him now or anything, but my opinion has slightly dropped.

[odysseyfan1]

How does believing that the health, wealth and prosperity gospel is wrong make me look as crazy as this church?

From my perspective, the "health, wealth and prosperity gospel" is along the lines of getting saved so God can bless you immensely and give you heaven on earth. Everything's going to be bliss and happiness, etc. Ramsey doesn't teach that. He says for Christians to get out of debt and invest the money God has given them.

He teaches that if you do wise things with your money and tithe, God will bless you with wealth to use for your own enjoyment. I hate to break it to you but, that's the health, wealth and prosperity gospel.

Are you sure you aren't getting Ramsey mixed up with Joel Olsteen?

I can't seem to find any good quotes of him talking about Joel Olsteen but, trust me; they're great friends. Olsteen has been interviewed on the the Dave Ramsey Show (both radio and TV), they did a webcast together and Ramsey endorses Olsteen's books and fully supports and praises his "ministry". That should be a major red flag that all of Dave Ramsey's garbage is something that Christians need to avoid.

What really set me off was the "worker of the devil" line. I know many people who once were in financial debt, but are now free from it. They are now able to give more to missions and the spread of the Gospel! (I know this to be true in some cases, while obviously some will decide to be selfish with God's gifts.) If God can use someone like Dave Ramsey to allow Christians to be able to support missionaries, churches and evangelism, so be it. I don't believe we ought to referring to our brothers-or-sisters in Christ as "heretics" (see the posts before ours; I never knew C.S. Lewis was one ), workers or the devil, etc., unless they out-right blaspheme our Savior.

Again, "Worker of the Devil" might have been a little strong but, he leads people away from Jesus and into selfish, greedy, materialistic idolatry. That's wrong!

Dave Ramsay doesn't teach that. He just says that you should get out of debt and save the money that you make. They'res nothing wrong with that. Who's Joel Olsteen?

-- 13 Mar 2011 04:11 pm --

Do you guys think it's slightly rude to make fun of this church's website for no apparent reason?
Maybe it's just me...

No apparent reason?!

[King Butter Turtle]

Dave Ramsay doesn't teach that. He just says that you should get out of debt and save the money that you make. They'res nothing wrong with that.

The end goal of his program is to amass wealth.

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Who's Joel Olsteen?

[Parker Family]

Money is NOT the root of Evil.
The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. (just making it clear)
Some Christians get this confuse (I did when I was little)

If we become rich as Christians, we should use that money for God. It is not wrong to get rich, not if we just USE money as a tool from God. If Christians want to get rich, they should do it for God's glory. God forbids Christians to get rich for their own sake.
The Bible did not command us to stay poor. God commands us to use what we have and earn from it for God's glory (Parable of the servants with the talents).

Problem with Joel Osteen is that he tells us to believe God for the Money not to love God for being our Savior.

[King Butter Turtle]

Money is NOT the root of Evil.
The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. (just making it clear)
Some Christians get this confuse (I did when I was little)

Yes but, if you don't love money, why wouldn't you give it away? Everyone who is rich, is rich at the expense of the desperately poor.

If we become rich as Christians, we should use that money for God. It is not wrong to get rich, not if we just USE money as a tool from God. If Christians want to get rich, they should do it for God's glory. God forbids Christians to get rich for their own sake.
The Bible did not command us to stay poor. God commands us to use what we have and earn from it for God's glory (Parable of the servants with the talents).

There's nothing wrong with making lots of money and giving it all away. But, to keep more than a reasonable amount for yourself (what Dave Ramsey teaches) is, um... THE VERY DEFINITION OF GREED!!!

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[Amethystic]

Maybe someone should split this into two topics... there's a separate debate going on here.

[SoccerLOTR]

Money is NOT the root of Evil.
The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. (just making it clear)
Some Christians get this confuse (I did when I was little)

Yes but, if you don't love money, why wouldn't you give it away? Everyone who is rich, is rich at the expense of the desperately poor.

If we become rich as Christians, we should use that money for God. It is not wrong to get rich, not if we just USE money as a tool from God. If Christians want to get rich, they should do it for God's glory. God forbids Christians to get rich for their own sake.
The Bible did not command us to stay poor. God commands us to use what we have and earn from it for God's glory (Parable of the servants with the talents).

There's nothing wrong with making lots of money and giving it all away. But, to keep more than a reasonable amount for yourself (what Dave Ramsey teaches) is, um... THE VERY DEFINITION OF GREED!!!

—

Whit was rich. And he used it for good. He never really outright gave it all away, he had enough that he could live on, but he was still generous and never tried to get more money, cause he was content with what he had. He didn't make money from the store, and would always put money down if it was needed for some situation. I think having some saved for said situations is ok...just as long as you are willing to part with it when the need arises, and you aren't just hoarding it for your own benefit. There's my Odyssey support/reference.

[The Top Crusader]

Yeah, having a safety net is one thing, in case you lose your job or something. Having MILLIONS accrued... eh.

[Josef1004]

Yeah, having a safety net is one thing, in case you lose your job or something. Having MILLIONS accrued... eh.

Maybe some people just want a bigger safety net than others. What's wrong with having millions?
Dave Ramsey may seem a little full of himself, but that's common with TV and radio personalities. I don't think he teaches so much the prosperity gospel as he teaches basic cause and effect. And that works for believers and non-believers alike.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with amassing wealth. That's what we all try to do when we get a job. The idea isn't just to get by, it's to get gain--that's why it's called being "gainfully employed".

[SoccerLOTR]

Yeah, having a safety net is one thing, in case you lose your job or something. Having MILLIONS accrued... eh.

Maybe some people just want a bigger safety net than others. What's wrong with having millions?
Dave Ramsey may seem a little full of himself, but that's common with TV and radio personalities. I don't think he teaches so much the prosperity gospel as he teaches basic cause and effect. And that works for believers and non-believers alike.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with amassing wealth. That's what we all try to do when we get a job. The idea isn't just to get by, it's to get gain--that's why it's called being "gainfully employed".

Yes, there's nothing wrong with getting rich, so to speak. However, God gives those with wealth more responsibility, and expects them to use it for His glory, not just stash it in a vault and forget about it.

[King Butter Turtle]

Yeah, having a safety net is one thing, in case you lose your job or something. Having MILLIONS accrued... eh.

Maybe some people just want a bigger safety net than others. What's wrong with having millions?
Dave Ramsey may seem a little full of himself, but that's common with TV and radio personalities. I don't think he teaches so much the prosperity gospel as he teaches basic cause and effect. And that works for believers and non-believers alike.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with amassing wealth. That's what we all try to do when we get a job. The idea isn't just to get by, it's to get gain--that's why it's called being "gainfully employed".

There's nothing inherently wrong with having a lot of money. There is something wrong with having a lot of money while 30,000 innocent children starve to death every day. When some one buys a boat, for example, they're saying that having a boat is more important to them than feeding starving children. It's called opportunity cost. To amass wealth is to say that your pleasure is more important than human life and/or that Jesus is not ultimately satisfying. If you have a goal of amassing wealth, not only are you foolish and going against the teachings of Jesus but, you're wasting part of your life on useless, worldly materialism.

Our Lord finds our desires, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.

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Obviously greed is a sin, right? Are you really claiming that the lifestyle Dave Ramsey lives and teaches isn't greedy?

[StrongNChrist]

There's something even more wrong with judging a person by what they do with their money

People give as God directs them. Better they give some of what they have with a thankful heart, then all they have with a begrudging heart because they have to give it all away.

EDIT: First line addressing the quote:

There's nothing inherently wrong with having a lot of money. There is something wrong with having a lot of money while 30,000 innocent children starve to death every day

[King Butter Turtle]

There's something even more wrong with judging a person by what they do with their money

—

I don't want to judge anyone but, how one spends their money says a lot about them. It might show that you value your family, you value Christian education, you value cars more than houses, you're very conservative or liberal, you're very sloppy and don't pay much attention to things, etc. It could really say a lot of things. If some one were to look at the budget of a Christian without meeting them or knowing anything about them, they ought to realize right away that they're a Christian because the budget should represent qualities such as compassion, love, mercy and selflessness. If you were to look at the budget of a Dave Ramsey follower, you'd probably find qualities such as greed, materialism, selfishness and idolatry.

[odysseyfan1]

There's something even more wrong with judging a person by what they do with their money

—

I don't want to judge anyone but, how one spends their money says a lot about them. It might show that you value your family, you value Christian education, you value cars more than houses, you're very conservative or liberal, you're very sloppy and don't pay much attention to things, etc. It could really say a lot of things. If some one were to look at the budget of a Christian without meeting them or knowing anything about them, they ought to realize right away that they're a Christian because the budget should represent qualities such as compassion, love, mercy and selflessness. If you were to look at the budget of a Dave Ramsey follower, you'd probably find qualities such as greed, materialism, selfishness and idolatry.

Probably? But aren't you judging them?

[Josef1004]

Well put, StrongNChrist. The bottom line is that the command to help the poor, was given to the poor, the common people. This is from Luke 3, the same passage of Scripture that was quoted from, I think, in an effort to prove that it's wrong to be rich and not "give it all away". But the fact on the matter is that the rich aren't being addressed here at all!
It's easy to point fingers at the rich and say, "How dare they keep all that when there are little children starving in Africa? They're supposed to be sharing, since they're so rich. They could feed a whole village; Shame on them buying champagne every sunday!" But the message to the rich was never to feed the poor.
Does this mean that millionaires are exempt from the command to show compassion and share? By no means! (James 3:17)
But the fact is that the command to show such compassion comes right down, and perhaps even more so on account of familiarity, to those who have been blessed simply with an extra T-shirt or piece of chicken. Even if that extra shirt, pair of shoes, food, or etc. is a rare bonus in my economy, if I withhold from giving, or at least lending, to someone I find in real need, I have to admit I'm just as much at fault as I would be if I were a multi-billionaire. It's "He that has two tunics let him share", not "He that has two hundred tunics let him share."

[SoccerLOTR]

Well put, StrongNChrist. The bottom line is that the command to help the poor, was given to the poor, the common people. This is from Luke 3, the same passage of Scripture that was quoted from, I think, in an effort to prove that it's wrong to be rich and not "give it all away". But the fact on the matter is that the rich aren't being addressed here at all!
It's easy to point fingers at the rich and say, "How dare they keep all that when there are little children starving in Africa? They're supposed to be sharing, since they're so rich. They could feed a whole village; Shame on them buying champagne every sunday!" But the message to the rich was never to feed the poor.
Does this mean that millionaires are exempt from the command to show compassion and share? By no means! (James 3:17)
But the fact is that the command to show such compassion comes right down, and perhaps even more so on account of familiarity, to those who have been blessed simply with an extra T-shirt or piece of chicken. Even if that extra shirt, pair of shoes, food, or etc. is a rare bonus in my economy, if I withhold from giving, or at least lending, to someone I find in real need, I have to admit I'm just as much at fault as I would be if I were a multi-billionaire. It's "He that has two tunics let him share", not "He that has two hundred tunics let him share."

Wow, never thought of the context of the passage and who Jesus was addressing. Interesting...and leaves us without excuse when we do nothing for others.