Church Services

[Amethystic]

There's a time for everything, in my experience; there's a time to sit in a pew and maintain order, and there's a time to let the Spirit raise the roof!

[John Chrysostom]

So why do you think St. Paul wrote this chapter then?

[Amethystic]

To teach the church? I'm not denying it's important to maintain order, but there are times when you need to shut up and listen, and then there's times where you have to let things loose. The Bible is full of contrast: mercy and punishment, inclusion and excommunication, orderliness and wild manifestations of the supernatural; everything has its place in God's plan.

[John Chrysostom]

Fair enough, where do you see wild manifestations of the supernatural or "things being let loose" in Scripture?

[Amethystic]

Like, the entire Bible? It's kind of hard to pin it down to one place, but if I had to give examples, I'd list the Gospels and the book of Acts.

[John Chrysostom]

The first example of the Church which is in Acts 2 says "And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers." The Apostles' doctrine not letting loose. I hope I am not communicating the idea that these things are never right and that we need to follow a certain order of things or everything is terrible, I'm not saying that what I am saying is that order is the normative and the Apostles' doctrine hence God's doctrine is one of order. I would say that from the start the early Church was orderly and had prescribed orders of services and I really don't agree with some of the modern views that people just gathered and it sort of came together.

p.s. I find it not helpful at all when people cite entire books of the Bible supporting their side, if you don't want to look up a specific passage then at least reference some event other wise I'll just say "Well my side is supported by the Gospels and Acts too" and we'll never get any where.

[Amethystic]

I'd take an awful lot of time for me to pick that stuff apart verse by verse, though, and considering this is an online discussion it rather doesn't seem worth the effort. But really, it is a general thing; Jesus and the Apostles did miracles, and then everything fell into place around that. So I say show me the miracles, and then we can start organizing the masses.

[John Chrysostom]

I agree it would take a long time and I totally understand not wanting to put the time into that. I can also see where you're coming from I just disagree. I think it was more organized than just do some miracles and then it all fell into place. I mean like it says in Acts 2 the Church was already being governed by the doctrine of the Apostles hours after Pentecost; I think God is a God of order in general or specifically.

[Amethystic]

I'm not saying it wasn't well-organized, I'm just saying that they did miracles first, organized second. Sometimes it seems like everyone's got it turned around, that if they get their little church group set up like a well-oiled machine everything will be peachy, when we should be focusing less on (but not neglecting) the physical church establishment and focus more on glorifying God and demonstrating His power.

[John Chrysostom]

And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

The more excellent way is of course love which St. Paul spends the entire next chapter talking about. So yes I agree we should be focused on God's love more but I would disagree that spiritual gifts and miracles were or should be the first focus after that. The physical Church establishment is important.

[Amethystic]

And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

The more excellent way is of course love which St. Paul spends the entire next chapter talking about. So yes I agree we should be focused on God's love more but I would disagree that spiritual gifts and miracles were or should be the first focus after that. The physical Church establishment is important.

Love is, indeed, the most important thing in life; God is love. As for the rest, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. ^_^

[Steve]

Go to church 'COZ YOU GOTTA PRAISE GOD!!! No church is perfect-just go and praise Jesus, or your life will stink like a farm.

Hipster Out.

[Amethystic]

...

Well, on a somewhat related note, I performed a fundraiser drama production at my old church today. It was so weird, because I recognized everyone in the photos on the billboards, and then one lady working in the office told me she remembered back when I was 'this tall'. (i.e. over a foot shorter than I am now.) So yeah, it was one big trip down memory lane.