No Greater Joy

[Jesus' Princess]

What do you guys think of Michael and Debi Pearl, and their ministry, No Greater Joy? If you don't know who or what I'm talking about, here's the link to their website. http://Www.nogreaterjoy.org I know there's been some controversy over them and their beliefs in the past year or so, even in our small fellowship there's some disagreements over the way they teach.

Also, I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the CCDS, but since it's not really a debate yet, I posted here.

[Knight Fisher]

Something seems very wrong about this. http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/letters/que ... the-floor/ I don't know much about their ministry but that seems kinda... I don't know how to put it. And this. http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/letters/que ... pset-lady/

[John Chrysostom]

Yeah I have to agree this ministry has something very wrong with it, they are making very odd statements based on made up facts such as "t is often the case that a young teenager who doubts the existence of God has been exposed to science fiction in movies or video games."

These are some more articles that are just bizarre http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/letters/que ... /pacifism/
http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/letters/que ... y-thieves/

[American Eagle]

Yeah I have to agree this ministry has something very wrong with it, they are making very odd statements based on made up facts such as "t is often the case that a young teenager who doubts the existence of God has been exposed to science fiction in movies or video games."

I don't really know these people, but based on my own life experiences, I'm coming to the conclusion that that may be a true statement.

You all are making vague claims against these folks and then postings links as "proof". What exactly is wrong with them?

[John Chrysostom]

C.S. Lewis wrote science fiction, the Lord of the Rings is fantasy. They're the one's making the claim without any evidence. Exposure to science fiction does not make a teenager doubt God.

They're overacting and will shelter their kids so much that they'll be able to exist outside of a sheltered community they create for themselves. They have multiple articles claiming that most churches today are godless places that will send your child to hell.

My point with the first article and with many of their articles are that they are using questionable anecdotal evidence to conjure up horrible images of life outside of a tiny super Conservative, homeschool, fundamentalist, bubble. For example, this article http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/ge ... ping-ship/ claims that parents need to be on guard against their children engaging in incest. This group takes the idea of total depravity to a new level.

[American Eagle]

I wrote out a fairly long reply, Ayn, but I erased it. I don't feel like trashing nor defending these people because I simply don't know them. I've seen a book by them around our house, Created to be His Help Meet, but I know nothing beyond that.

Honestly, these people seem to be devout Christians trying to do their best to serve God. Yeah, some of their stuff is a little extreme, but I have no desire to search for faults. Why do the rest of you?

[Marvin D.]

I agree that *some* of what they teach is kind of extreme, but what does it mean? It's not exactly logical, per se. If they taught things that go against sound doctrine (which they do not), that would be different. We have several books from them, and my mom gets their newsletters as well, and I haven't seen anything truly *wrong*.

[John Chrysostom]

AE: As I will explain to Gaius I do believe they go against sound doctrine, that is why I point out the errors of their ways. And I believe this is a totally Scriptural act, 1 John 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world” And 2 Timothy 4:2 "[R]eprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching"

Gaius: I do believe they do teach unsound doctrine, for example in many of their articles they say that if a family ever comes to their church who send their children to public school those children are ostracized from the other children and aren't allowed to socialize with anyone, what? How is that being Christian? I also think they're being legalistic; no watching TV, ostracize people who don't believe exactly the same as you, no internet for children, and no going to college.

They also post so many things that are just untrue. Such as "Soybeans and pasta will kill you, after it diminishes your sex drive and shrivels up your backbone, but meat—red, juicy meat, with a little sizzled fat, will keep you alive longer and put some kick in your love life. Have you never noticed all the bent-over, pale and sickly vegetarians?" This is just absurd, as are many of their anecdotes, if they're spreading falsehoods then they shouldn't be listened to.

Extreme would be only using the KJV or never watching TV, saying that families where parents aren't constantly vigilant will result in children practicing incest is beyond extreme.

[Knight Fisher]

AE and Marv. I know next to nothing about them. But I do know that some of the stuff on their website was fishy. That's all I was saying.

[American Eagle]

They also post so many things that are just untrue. Such as "Soybeans and pasta will kill you, after it diminishes your sex drive and shrivels up your backbone, but meat—red, juicy meat, with a little sizzled fat, will keep you alive longer and put some kick in your love life. Have you never noticed all the bent-over, pale and sickly vegetarians?"

Hahaha, that's hilarious. Fair enough.

That makes sense, KF.

[Jesus' Princess]

I do think they do go to an extreme, for instance in one of the articles that Ayn Rand quoted, is it really necessary to video your pantry in order to catch your kids stealing?he gave some interesting advice.... On the other hand, right now I'm doing a bible study with some young ladies from our church, and one of the books we are using is Preparing to be a Helpmeet, by Debi Pearl. It is a very well written book with some excellent points and words of wisdom for girls approaching marriage or wanting to prepare for marriage etc.. So I guess I'm in kind of in the middle, I most definitely do not agree with everything the teach, but they do have some things that I agree with, and find challenging.

[Dr. Watson]

This group takes the idea of total depravity to a new level.

Michael Pearl is virulently anti-Calvinist, so I doubt they believe in total depravity.


My family gets their periodic magazine. I'm like, meh, toward them. Besides being on opposite sides of the doctrinal planet (I am, of course, a staunch Calvinist ), there's a number of things I dislike about them. King James Version only, for example, and some of the strident, non-graceful tones of Mr. Pearl. That to say, they are not all bad, or a cult or anything; just someone to take with a big grain of salt.

[John Chrysostom]

Well they may be anti-Calvinist but they're preaching the theology of total depravity.

[Christian A.]

Well they may be anti-Calvinist but they're preaching the theology of total depravity.

From the quotes you posted, it would seem that all they are preaching is the theology of original sin, which is not necessarily total depravity.

[John Chrysostom]

I'm not sure of the distinction in this case but yes that may be a more accurate way of describing their belief.

[Jehoshaphat]

These people seem really fishy, and some of there ideas are wrong.

[ric]

These people seem kind've fishy, and some of there ideas are wrong.

I've never seen that particular typo before.