Communion

Closed or Open?

At the Second Church of Odyssey you'll find different ways of expressing your beliefs, finding prayer support or being encouraged through regular devotionals.
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Knight Fisher
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Post by Knight Fisher »

Whitty Whit wrote:KF. "receive" and "accept" are synonyms. Deal with it. In this sense, it's the exact same thing.
Yeah in English. We went over this last time. There is a whole different case(Whatever it is called.) in Greek. And that is what the word is. No action is made by us to become a Christian.

@ Sherlock He was and wanted to stay that way. But they couldn't work it out as I'm sure we all know. What is your view on purgatory?
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John Chrysostom
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Post by John Chrysostom »

Theotokos means God-bearer, and that phrase and idea is an important part of Orthodox theology dealing with the incarnation. Now on the Theotokos being conceived without sin, Orthodox do not believe that.

Orthodox would also reject the Protestant view of "sola fide" but without accepting the wording of the Council of Trent.

Orthodox do believe in the Priesthood of all believers and I was recently surprised to discover how many of the Sacraments Orthodox laymen can preform, all though as icons of Christ on earth the Bishops and Priests should be the normative way the Sacraments are administered.

On the Eucharist this is another point of slight disagreement in that Orthodox do not believe in transubstantiation as the Catholics do.
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Whitty Whit
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Post by Whitty Whit »

Knight Fisher wrote:
Whitty Whit wrote:KF. "receive" and "accept" are synonyms. Deal with it. In this sense, it's the exact same thing.
Yeah in English. We went over this last time. There is a whole different case(Whatever it is called.) in Greek. And that is what the word is. No action is made by us to become a Christian.
Well then... Do you believe that you can't do works to somehow attain (whichever term you wish to use) salvation? But isn't praying a work?
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Christian A.
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Post by Christian A. »

Whitty Whit wrote:
Knight Fisher wrote:
Whitty Whit wrote:KF. "receive" and "accept" are synonyms. Deal with it. In this sense, it's the exact same thing.
Yeah in English. We went over this last time. There is a whole different case(Whatever it is called.) in Greek. And that is what the word is. No action is made by us to become a Christian.
Well then... Do you believe that you can't do works to somehow attain (whichever term you wish to use) salvation? But isn't praying a work?
Not to get too involved in this conversation (and I don't plan on posting any more than this), but although my answer may be disputed, I think this is the only answer that makes sense:

Yes, we do things such as pray, repent, believe, receive, etc. to be saved. But we do these only by the power given to us by the Holy Spirit. Romans 8 says that native man controlled by the "sinful nature" or "flesh" cannot please God. Therefore God must take the initiative and change our hearts to respond to the Gospel. We can't repent or believe of our own power, so God must regenerate us (Titus 3), in order that we may be saved.
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Knight Fisher
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Post by Knight Fisher »

Christian A. wrote:
Whitty Whit wrote:
Knight Fisher wrote:
Whitty Whit wrote:KF. "receive" and "accept" are synonyms. Deal with it. In this sense, it's the exact same thing.
Yeah in English. We went over this last time. There is a whole different case(Whatever it is called.) in Greek. And that is what the word is. No action is made by us to become a Christian.
Well then... Do you believe that you can't do works to somehow attain (whichever term you wish to use) salvation? But isn't praying a work?
Not to get too involved in this conversation (and I don't plan on posting any more than this), but although my answer may be disputed, I think this is the only answer that makes sense:

Yes, we do things such as pray, repent, believe, receive, etc. to be saved. But we do these only by the power given to us by the Holy Spirit. Romans 8 says that native man controlled by the "sinful nature" or "flesh" cannot please God. Therefore God must take the initiative and change our hearts to respond to the Gospel. We can't repent or believe of our own power, so God must regenerate us (Titus 3), in order that we may be saved.

Exactly! And those actions aren't how we are saved. We are saved by God.
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Whitty Whit
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Post by Whitty Whit »

Knight Fisher wrote:
Christian A. wrote:
Whitty Whit wrote:
Knight Fisher wrote:
Whitty Whit wrote:KF. "receive" and "accept" are synonyms. Deal with it. In this sense, it's the exact same thing.
Yeah in English. We went over this last time. There is a whole different case(Whatever it is called.) in Greek. And that is what the word is. No action is made by us to become a Christian.
Well then... Do you believe that you can't do works to somehow attain (whichever term you wish to use) salvation? But isn't praying a work?
Not to get too involved in this conversation (and I don't plan on posting any more than this), but although my answer may be disputed, I think this is the only answer that makes sense:

Yes, we do things such as pray, repent, believe, receive, etc. to be saved. But we do these only by the power given to us by the Holy Spirit. Romans 8 says that native man controlled by the "sinful nature" or "flesh" cannot please God. Therefore God must take the initiative and change our hearts to respond to the Gospel. We can't repent or believe of our own power, so God must regenerate us (Titus 3), in order that we may be saved.

Exactly! And those actions aren't how we are saved. We are saved by God.
Isn't receiving a work then? :-s
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Knight Fisher
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Post by Knight Fisher »

No I merely use the word receive because Greek has a tense(That was the word!) that English doesn't. Thus I can't explain it any better.
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Post by bookworm »

I believe that churches that practice closed communion don’t do it to cause separation, but actually just the opposite. It’s been my experience that closed communions are typically in churches that believe the bread and wine truly become Jesus’ body and blood, in which case closed communion not only makes sense, but according to their beliefs it would be the only way to have it.
If they believe the body and blood are real, then they can’t let someone take it if they believe it’s only a symbol because they wouldn’t understand what they were receiving.


So it’s not that they’re trying to be exclusive, they’re making sure that those who participate in their communion understand what they believe it is first.
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Knight Fisher
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Post by Knight Fisher »

bookworm wrote:I believe that churches that practice closed communion don’t do it to cause separation, but actually just the opposite. It’s been my experience that closed communions are typically in churches that believe the bread and wine truly become Jesus’ body and blood, in which case closed communion not only makes sense, but according to their beliefs it would be the only way to have it.
If they believe the body and blood are real, then they can’t let someone take it if they believe it’s only a symbol because they wouldn’t understand what they were receiving.


So it’s not that they’re trying to be exclusive, they’re making sure that those who participate in their communion understand what they believe it is first.
Exactly bookworm. Thank you. That is what I have been trying to explain. We believe that it is his very body and blood. And if you don't believe that... Exactly what the verse says.
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Post by Christian A. »

Whitty Whit wrote:
Knight Fisher wrote:
Christian A. wrote:
Whitty Whit wrote:
Knight Fisher wrote:
Whitty Whit wrote:KF. "receive" and "accept" are synonyms. Deal with it. In this sense, it's the exact same thing.
Yeah in English. We went over this last time. There is a whole different case(Whatever it is called.) in Greek. And that is what the word is. No action is made by us to become a Christian.
Well then... Do you believe that you can't do works to somehow attain (whichever term you wish to use) salvation? But isn't praying a work?
Not to get too involved in this conversation (and I don't plan on posting any more than this), but although my answer may be disputed, I think this is the only answer that makes sense:

Yes, we do things such as pray, repent, believe, receive, etc. to be saved. But we do these only by the power given to us by the Holy Spirit. Romans 8 says that native man controlled by the "sinful nature" or "flesh" cannot please God. Therefore God must take the initiative and change our hearts to respond to the Gospel. We can't repent or believe of our own power, so God must regenerate us (Titus 3), in order that we may be saved.

Exactly! And those actions aren't how we are saved. We are saved by God.
Isn't receiving a work then? :-s
Yes, it is a work, but we only do that work after God regenerates our hearts. It is by His power that we repent and believe the Gospel (or receive it, if I'm sticking to your term). We cannot do anything to save ourselves, therefore everything done to get us saved comes from God.
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John Chrysostom
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Post by John Chrysostom »

Okay there are like three other threads for the free will vs predestination debate, also you don't have to quote every post above yours.

Any way back on topic, what Bookworm said, exactly right.
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Post by Josef1004 »

Sherlock wrote:We have closed Communion in my denomination just because the rather specific nature of what we believe regarding the nature of the sacrament gives it a significance that requires one share the same faith in order to partake in. In the instances where I've attended other services, I've declined to participate with them out of respect for that denomination's particular beliefs and because I believe communion is a practice between members of a church who share the same theological beliefs. This has never really caused any major issues between myself and my non-Catholic friends, but I can see how between various very similar denominations (who share the same beliefs regarding what communion is) it could seem somewhat confusing.

As a side-note, I haven't yet had my coffee this morning, so this is all a bit stream-of-consciousness writing. ;)
In that case, the question I would ask you is this:
Are you gathered unto the Lord and commemorating His death? Or..
are you gathered unto your beliefs regarding the nature of the sacrement?
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John Chrysostom
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Post by John Chrysostom »

It seems to me that our belief on the nature of the Sacrament and our belief in the Lord and His Resurrection, not death that's not on Sunday, are intertwined and we need both.
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Sherlock
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Post by Sherlock »

Josef - We (and there may be some variance here between Ayn and I) gather for the specific purpose of sharing in that Sacrament - without it, we wouldn't have the Mass and it would just be a gathering of believers. It is that shared belief in the nature of the sacrament itself as well as what we objectively believe happens and the graces that are bestowed that give it meaning and significance beyond just a group of people in a room who hold common beliefs.
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John Chrysostom
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Post by John Chrysostom »

I totally agree, with the caveat that Sherlock and I slightly disagree about what happens with the Sacrament.
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Post by gunblader3 »

bookworm wrote:I believe that churches that practice closed communion don’t do it to cause separation, but actually just the opposite. It’s been my experience that closed communions are typically in churches that believe the bread and wine truly become Jesus’ body and blood, in which case closed communion not only makes sense, but according to their beliefs it would be the only way to have it.
If they believe the body and blood are real, then they can’t let someone take it if they believe it’s only a symbol because they wouldn’t understand what they were receiving.


So it’s not that they’re trying to be exclusive, they’re making sure that those who participate in their communion understand what they believe it is first.
Agreed and I believe is what most (if not all) Catholic Church practice. I'm also pretty sure Eastern Orthodox as well (as told from one of my friends who is one).
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John Chrysostom
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Post by John Chrysostom »

I am Eastern Orthodox and that is an accurate statement of how we practice closed communion or the mystery as we call it.
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