Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus (video)

[Marvin D.]

I'd define it as a group of people who are basically like-minded and share the same ideals/teachings/doctrine, and, with some kind of Higher Power, seek to follow the teachings they have. That is why I couldn't exactly agree with the fact Jesus had His own religion.

[John Chrysostom]

What part of that definition does Jesus not fulfill?

[Marvin D.]

I don't think that Jesus had a "religion" himself, per se. To a degree, he might have brought religion to Earth, but he himself didn't have a religion he used in Heaven. I think when he said, "It is finished," he was finishing what was basically an extreme religion of sacrificing, and started something that was more of a relationship with God. Yes, it still was a religion, but it was more of a relationship.

[John Chrysostom]

Ahh, I would pretty much agree with that. I guess I would more freely equate the Church with religion and say that since Christ is the head of the Church there is religion in Heaven in that sense but yes a relationship with God is the focus of the Church.

[The Kings Daughter]

I don't think that Jesus had a "religion" himself, per se. To a degree, he might have brought religion to Earth, but he himself didn't have a religion he used in Heaven. I think when he said, "It is finished," he was finishing what was basically an extreme religion of sacrificing, and started something that was more of a relationship with God. Yes, it still was a religion, but it was more of a relationship.

This makes so much sense, thanks.

Now expecting your very own video?

[Marvin D.]

I don't think that Jesus had a "religion" himself, per se. To a degree, he might have brought religion to Earth, but he himself didn't have a religion he used in Heaven. I think when he said, "It is finished," he was finishing what was basically an extreme religion of sacrificing, and started something that was more of a relationship with God. Yes, it still was a religion, but it was more of a relationship.

This makes so much sense, thanks.

Now expecting your very own video?

You're welcome? ;P

I am?

Ahh, I would pretty much agree with that. I guess I would more freely equate the Church with religion and say that since Christ is the head of the Church there is religion in Heaven in that sense but yes a relationship with God is the focus of the Church.

Exactly. Both videos didn't do a good enough job of explaining religion.

[ric]

I like the message, but the guy isn't the greatest poet. He's not very expressive. Of course, I'm not an expert on spoken word and such, but the guy just sort of annoyed me.

[John Chrysostom]

Yeah I've never gotten the idea behind spoken word, it does seem kind of odd.

What about the message appealed to you?

[ric]

Well, I do like spoken word, but it requires a LOT of expression and emotion to really pull it off. The guy just didn't seem that into it.

I think the message was definitely relevant to today. Lots of people just reject Christianity as another hypocritical religion, and we're not going to fix that by just preaching hellfire and damnation.

I know it seems like an overpreached topic and all, but I bet we'd all be surprised how many people have no idea just what the heck Jesus is all about. And part of the reason is people are just so turned off by the word, "Christianity." So we need to get over Christianity and start with Jesus. And that's what the movie is really about.

And no, Jesus didn't have a religion. You realize how silly that is. The whole purpose of religion TODAY is to achieve some sort of fulfillment. Jesus didn't come to give us another doctrine of fulfillment; he came to fulfill. (I do understand that Christianity is to some extent a religion, but not according to the modern understanding of the word.)


edit: Uh...that wasn't iambic pentameter. That wasn't poetry. It was spoken word (for the most part. The rhymes annoyed me a little).

Also, here's a quote I found by the guy: “In my context, I’m in Seattle — religion, in shorthand, is defined as legalism, self-righteousness, self-justification,” he explained. “Once I put the video out, I realized a lot of people in the nation don’t define it as that.”

He went on to further clarify his stance, saying, “Religion as the institution and as the church — as Jesus’ bride — that is God’s plan A and there is no plan B. So I don’t want to abolish that. I don’t want to turn from that. And that’s where God is manifest.”

[John Chrysostom]

I felt too that the rhymes were a bit off at times.

Yeah I agree with his second definition of religion but I in no way get that definition from his video. I felt like he was saying that any religion, defined as Gaius and I did, even the Church is so hypocritical that it is only as individuals that we can approach God and I disagree with that as it is very individualistic.

[Over the Rainbow]

And no, Jesus didn't have a religion.

Jesus definitely had a religon and that religon was Judaism. He did not come to free us from the Law, but to make it stricter. Check out Matthew 5:28. The laws of religon have not be loosened and made void, but have been tightened.

I believe it was Ayn Rand who said there is still a lot of doing to do and I couldn't agree more.

[ric]

And no, Jesus didn't have a religion.

Jesus definitely had a religon and that religon was Judaism. He did not come to free us from the Law, but to make it stricter. Check out Matthew 5:28. The laws of religon have not be loosened and made void, but have been tightened.

So if you look at a woman lustfully, you should be stoned in the streets. But let's not get into that.

How could Jesus 'have' a religion? He believed in himself as the only way to salvation and he followed himself? Jesus is God. Why would He need a religion? The whole thing is just silly. You can say that Jesus taught Judaism, although I don't agree with that, but don't say that Jesus was a Jew.

[John Chrysostom]

Ummm how was Jesus not a Jew? A large part of His incarnation was that He fulfill the law of the Jews by coming and submitting to the law, hence why He was circumcised and lived in accordance with the law, not the legalism of the Pharisees but the law of Moses.

Now you say Jesus didn't have a religion but are you saying that even if we define religion as "the institution and as the church — as Jesus’ bride"?

[jelly]

And no, Jesus didn't have a religion.

Jesus definitely had a religon and that religon was Judaism. He did not come to free us from the Law, but to make it stricter.

Actually, it's more accurate to say that he fulfilled the law. He freed us from the penalties of being bound to the law.

How could Jesus 'have' a religion? He believed in himself as the only way to salvation and he followed himself? Jesus is God. Why would He need a religion? The whole thing is just silly. You can say that Jesus taught Judaism, although I don't agree with that, but don't say that Jesus was a Jew.

You're not using the correct definitions for 'religion' and 'Judaism'. What I think Christians often fail to remember is that the Jews were God's chosen people, they're still God's chosen people, and through them God's plan will ultimately be fulfilled. Jesus was more than simply a Jew... he was the perfect Jew. Jesus didn't simply come to earth to invent Christianity and then try to convert people from Judaism. Everything he did and taught was in direct correlation with the Hebrew law. Christianity as we know it was invented by the church at a later time. Jesus' priority was to fulfill the Jewish law and to get the Jews back on the right track, which included spreading the good news of God's Kingdom to all peoples. But it all started with the Jews, and the Jews are the priority.

[bookworm]

Actually, it's more accurate to say that he fulfilled the law.

—

[ric]

And no, Jesus didn't have a religion.

Jesus definitely had a religon and that religon was Judaism. He did not come to free us from the Law, but to make it stricter.

Actually, it's more accurate to say that he fulfilled the law. He freed us from the penalties of being bound to the law.

How could Jesus 'have' a religion? He believed in himself as the only way to salvation and he followed himself? Jesus is God. Why would He need a religion? The whole thing is just silly. You can say that Jesus taught Judaism, although I don't agree with that, but don't say that Jesus was a Jew.

You're not using the correct definitions for 'religion' and 'Judaism'. What I think Christians often fail to remember is that the Jews were God's chosen people, they're still God's chosen people, and through them God's plan will ultimately be fulfilled. Jesus was more than simply a Jew... he was the perfect Jew. Jesus didn't simply come to earth to invent Christianity and then try to convert people from Judaism. Everything he did and taught was in direct correlation with the Hebrew law. Christianity as we know it was invented by the church at a later time. Jesus' priority was to fulfill the Jewish law and to get the Jews back on the right track, which included spreading the good news of God's Kingdom to all peoples. But it all started with the Jews, and the Jews are the priority.

Yes, I agree with all of this. We're just using terms in different ways. My point is, giving Jesus titles is just trying to box him in. Jesus is Jesus. Yes, he fulfilled Judaism, but Judaism was a mere foreshadowing of what was to come. Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. Not Christianity as a religion, but Christianity: The practice of following Christ. And that's why it would also be silly to call Jesus a Christian. Calling him 'the perfect Jew' works I guess, but it still seems needless and circumscribing.

The logic seems quite obvious to me, but whatever. It's really not that big of a deal.

[jelly]

Yes, he fulfilled Judaism, but Judaism was a mere foreshadowing of what was to come.

No it wasn't. Judaism IS God's master plan.

Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. Not Christianity as a religion, but Christianity: The practice of following Christ. And that's why it would also be silly to call Jesus a Christian. Calling him 'the perfect Jew' works I guess, but it still seems needless and circumscribing.

Hardly! Jesus as the perfect Jew was his identity. It's not just something 'that works'; the entire definition of Christ was wrapped up in his identification as a Jew.

We, as contemporary Christians, seem to have this desire to simplify things to the extreme. "Man, screw religion, I'm just into JESUS, man." I feel like this attitude has been taken too far, since it's caused us to lose sight of the full fulfilment and absolute glory of Christ's purpose. Jesus needs to be more than "my homeboy"; he needs to be understood and recognized as the absolute climax of God's master plan for humanity. And yes, religion is essential to that plan. If you don't like the word 'religion', that's fine, but don't dismiss the entire Jewish law merely because you may not understand it.

It's popular to act like you don't care about religion because our culture doesn't care about religion. But is our goal to be popular with culture?

[ric]

If you don't like the word 'religion', that's fine, but don't dismiss the entire Jewish law merely because you may not understand it.

I'm not in any way arguing that because I don't think Jesus was a Jew we should dismiss the entire Jewish law. I never said anything even remotely to that effect. But while we're on the topic, if we haven't dismissed Jewish law, what exactly have we done with it? (This is a sincere question, not just one for argument's sake.)

he needs to be understood and recognized as the absolute climax of God's master plan for humanity.

Exactly. That's why I hesitate to say he was a Jew. Jesus existed before Judaism was ever conceived. Jesus is the base of Judaism. God wasn't just like "Yo Jesus, you wanna go down and die on a cross? I'm thinkin that would really work with the whole Judaism thing I've got goin." No, Judaism was just a stepping stone (a VERY ESSENTIAL STEPPING STONE THAT IS STILL RELEVANT TODAY) to God's ultimate plan centered on Jesus. And you can call that ultimate plan the fulfilled Judaism, in fact, it totally makes sense. It just seems slightly confusing to me, but whatever.

[John Chrysostom]

To me denying that Jesus is Jewish is awfully close to denying His human nature. He was born of Mary, a Jew, hence He is Jewish to deny He is Jewish seems to deny the virgin birth.

[ric]

Yes, as a human his race was Jewish. And, as Jelly said, he was the perfect Jew, or I would prefer the ultimate Jew. So, yes, Jesus was a Jew. There we go.