LCMS Q&A

[Knight Fisher]

True.

No I'm just saying the Early Church is the Early Church. We might do a study on it once in a while. But no more or less than that.

[Jonathan]

What are some of the differences between LCMS and other Lutheran denominations?

I'm LCMS too, so I'll jump in here.

There are three major Lutheran denominations in America, the Wisconsin Synod (WELS), the Missouri Synod (LCMS) and the Evangelical Lutheran Church (ELCA).

I honestly don't know any real differences between the WELS and LCMS. I know that theologically the WELS is fairly conservative as the LCMS is, so what differences exist aren't in abundance. The differences between the LCMS and ELCA, though, are many.

The ELCA, a generation ago, became very very liberalized. Decades ago they approved women pastors. Many leaders/pastors/councils/etc over the years have declared that Scripture is not without error or inspired. The church has called into question the historical dependency of the Scriptures. Much of the Synod believes that there is more than one way to God. Their denominational health plan covers abortion for any reason for any person within the family of employees of the church. They do not support traditional marriage, and are actively campaigning against a proposed state constitutional amendment in support of traditional marriage here in Minnesota. On and on it goes. I remember a number of years ago hearing an ELCA pastor even claim that the resurrection did not occur, which is ok b/c that's not the important part of the story. The important part, he said, is what the story tells us (and that drove me nuts because what that story tells me is that it happened!).

All of the above is foreign to the LCMS. We believe in the historical accuracy of scripture. We do not believe the pastoral office is open to women. We are not in favor of abortion and gay marriage (another important difference is worth noting here--the LCMS typically stays pretty quiet when it comes to politics). We believe in the Word, that it is inspired and without error. And we believe the only way to heaven is through faith in Christ.

In a nutshell, theologically the LCMS is conservative, and the ELCA is liberal. If you know that difference you can pretty much guess, and certainly understand, any difference between the two church bodies.

[John Chrysostom]

Thank you Jonathan that was a great explanation.

A few more questions.

Does your church do confession?

Do you personally do any prescribed prayers?

Do you believe spiritual gifts exist in the present age?

[Knight Fisher]

Thank you so much Jonathan.

[Jonathan]

Your welcome

Does the LCMS practice the sacrament of confession?

I'll jump in here too--the LCMS holds only two sacraments: baptism and communion. Confession isn't held as a sacrament. It is practiced though, but certainly not required (as a result it is not practiced much), and actually has a whole section devoted to it in Luther's small catechism.

As I understand it we do it different than Catholics though. Catholics--and I don't know if this is still true but it was historically--go in and confess specific sins--all that can be remembered preferably. Lutherans just go in, give a generic confession covering all short-coming (as is done during the Sunday service), and then the Pastor announces absolution.

-- 24 Feb 2012 09:19 pm --

Do you personally do any prescribed prayers?

What do you mean by prescribed prayers?

Do you believe spiritual gifts exist in the present age?

I'll come back to this one later.

edit--one more thing on confession. In addition to private confession, the LCMS also practices "corporate confession" during the service, typically at or near the start. Even churches not using the liturgy still work it in typically, and for the churches that do use the liturgy it happens at the beginning every week, typically with the same words being said week to week.

[John Chrysostom]

My understanding is that there are daily prayers in the smaller catechism that some Lutherans pray every day.

[Jonathan]

Ah, that type of prescribed prayer.

Yes, there are a couple of prayers for morning, evening, Sunday, etc that Luther wrote that are in the Catechism. There are also a few prayers in the service, for those churches that use the liturgy, that are the same every week, and another prayer prescribed that changes weekly so the prayer is in line with the church calendar.

[Sherlock]

What is the LCMS view on communion as symbolic/not symbolic? I'm not to familiar with the different branches, but I once heard that some of the Lutheran denominations view communion as not symbolic while others do. Is this accurate?

[Knight Fisher]

What is the LCMS view on communion as symbolic/not symbolic? I'm not to familiar with the different branches, but I once heard that some of the Lutheran denominations view communion as not symbolic while others do. Is this accurate?

I don't know how other Lutherans view it but we view it as non-symbolic. And believe it is the bread and wine and Jesus' body and blood.

[Jonathan]

What is the LCMS view on communion as symbolic/not symbolic? I'm not to familiar with the different branches, but I once heard that some of the Lutheran denominations view communion as not symbolic while others do. Is this accurate?

Sorry for the long delay--I'm really sporadic in regards to checking any part of this site.

I don't know what other branches believe, but the LCMS believes that Christ's body and blood is present in and under the bread and wine. We differ from the Catholic view, I believe--and correct me if I'm wrong Sherlock--in that we don't believe the elements "transform" to that during the service or by anything the Pastor says or does, etc.

[John Chrysostom]

we don't believe the elements "transform" to that during the service or by anything the Pastor says or does, etc.

Would you say they transform though? Not as you said because of anything the Pastor says but through God doing it?

[Jonathan]

Sorry I took so long to respond. I had to ask my Pastor about this one, so I'll answer with his response:

You are correct that the elements do not “transform” or “transubstantiate” into the body and blood simply because the priest or anyone recites the proper words. As to the question, "Would you say they transform though? Not as you said because of anything the Pastor says but through God doing it?"
I would say that the word “transform” is unfortunate but the basic sentiments behind the statement are pretty good.

Our view, and the bible view, is probably taught and explained best in the Formula of Concord Solid Declaration Article VIII on the Lord’s Supper. Here it says in paragraphs 74 and following:

“The word or work of any man does not produce the true presence of Christ body and blood in the Supper. This is true whether we consider the merit or recitation of the minister or the eating, drinking, or faith of the communicants. Christ’s presence should be credited only to Almighty God’s power and our Lord Jesus Christ’s word, institution and ordination. Jesus Christ’s true and almighty words, which he spoke at the first institution were effective not only at the first Supper. They endure, are valid, operate, and are still effective. So in all places where the Supper is celebrated according to Christ’s institution and His word are used, Christ body and blood are truly present, distributed and received because of the power and effectiveness of the words that Christ spoke at the first Supper. Where his institution is observed and his words are spoken over the bread and cup and the consecrated bread and cup are disturbed, Christ Himself, through the spoken words, is still effective by virtue of the first institution which he wants to be repeated there through His word.”

There is a distinction in the minds of the first Lutherans between “recitation of the minister” and “Christ’s words are spoken over the bread and cup.” The Roman church at the time of Luther said that the mere recitation of the words as a spiritual action of the priest transformed the elements. The Lutherans said that it was the original words of Christ which make the sacrament and effect the “sacramental union” which is the Holy Communion of body and bread and also wine and blood. It is not the act of recitation but the actual words of Christ which matters although these words, obviously, must be spoken over the elements.

Further the Roman church said that you could have body and blood without actually giving the consecrated elements to the people to eat and drink. The Lutherans said that apart from actually distributing the elements and apart from consuming these elements you cannot talk about the body and blood although they do not become body and blood by virtue of being distributed and eaten but because the words of Christ are spoken over the elements.

[Sherlock]

Thanks for the explanation, Jonathan.

I was just wondering, then, based on your responses, would the Lutherans believe that the transformation into the body and blood could occur if anyone said the proper words spoken over the elements, or must it be an ordained minister to be valid? It sounds like, from what your Pastor said, that it could be a non-ordained person, as long as the proper words are spoken?

My other question is when you mention that not distributing the elements would not allow you to speak of them as body and blood, I am wondering what stance you take on leftover elements from the service? So, say after the words are spoken, and communion is distributed, but there is some bread or wine remaining, how do you treat that? It is still considered body and blood, or does it cease to be after it is distributed?