Church Splits

[Josef1004]

Expanding on that is left as an exercise for the student.

[Kait]

I've been a part of a few church splits in my day.

The most recent one was basically a result of a narcissistic cult-like leader who couldn't stand to have his integrity questioned and decided to spread slander and lies about my family which resulted in us basically getting kicked out. My mom lost her job as a result, we lost every friend we had and we had to start our lives over again because we had wrapped up everything in helping build that community from the ground up. A few other families left in defense of us.

After that I basically lost my religion and haven't been to a church (regularly) since and probably never will again. I can't stand the petty judgmental atmosphere that I've found in most churches.

Which is to say...church splits STINK. And I wouldn't wish that experience on my worst enemy.

[Steve]

I've been a part of a few church splits in my day.

The most recent one was basically a result of a narcissistic cult-like leader who couldn't stand to have his integrity questioned and decided to spread slander and lies about my family which resulted in us basically getting kicked out. My mom lost her job as a result, we lost every friend we had and we had to start our lives over again because we had wrapped up everything in helping build that community from the ground up. A few other families left in defense of us.

After that I basically lost my religion and haven't been to a church (regularly) since and probably never will again. I can't stand the petty judgmental atmosphere that I've found in most churches.

Which is to say...church splits STINK. And I wouldn't wish that experience on my worst enemy.

I really hate the fact that your story is so common. Christians are the worst at loving others...

[Vic]

It's infuriating when people (Christian people, I might add) start wars over the smallest things. Those people need to sit back with a beer (or lemonade if you don't drink), chill out, and just talk about God's grace. I don't know why people need to act so idiotic. Kait, I'm really sorry that happened to you. Your story broke my heart.

[Steve]

It's infuriating when people (Christian people, I might add) start wars over the smallest things. Those people need to sit back with a beer (or lemonade if you don't drink), chill out, and just talk about God's grace. I don't know why people need to act so idiotic. Kait, I'm really sorry that happened to you. Your story broke my heart.

You said beer on a "Christian" forum. Prepare for the hate.

[Joy]

It's infuriating when people (Christian people, I might add) start wars over the smallest things. Those people need to sit back with a beer (or lemonade if you don't drink), chill out, and just talk about God's grace. I don't know why people need to act so idiotic. Kait, I'm really sorry that happened to you. Your story broke my heart.

You said beer on a "Christian" forum. Prepare for the hate.

Steve, could you take your spam elsewhere, please? Thank you.

I've never really been apart of a church split. When I was a baby, we used to go to a church in the states and drove the 3 or 4 hours there every Sunday. It was part of a international fellowship, and a church that was also apart of that sprung up way closer to home, so we went there.

I don't think it's right for churches to split. Problems should be worked through, and if needed, new leadership.

I know it's probably not that simple.

[Josef1004]

It's infuriating when people (Christian people, I might add) start wars over the smallest things. Those people need to sit back with a beer (or lemonade if you don't drink), chill out, and just talk about God's grace. I don't know why people need to act so idiotic. Kait, I'm really sorry that happened to you. Your story broke my heart.

What do you do with the lemonade if you don't drink?

But seriously. Church splits in themselves are not bad. the church was intended to be constantly hiving off and spreading the gospel of Christ through all the earth. Where the problem lies is in the reason behind the split. maybe the Lord allows those divisive issues to crop up because the church would otherwise never move. It would stagnate. It would become a meaningless, powerless fixture in a meaningless, powerless world.

[John Chrysostom]

Why do you say the Church was intended to continually split? Doesn't the book of Jude speak of the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints?

[Josef1004]

I'm talking about a geographical split. Yes, the faith must still be in the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom is the common salvation that Jude so much wanted to write about. Splitting from that is to be considered a form of rebellion and is deadly (Jude 11) . But splitting physically is another matter. The book of Revelation speaks of seven churches in Asia, not just one church in Asia. I verily believe it was God's intention that there be seven churches in Asia. And How did they actually come to be there? I like to think that perhaps some of those same saints who were exhorted by Jude to contend for the faith did just that. Some from Ephesus hived off from their ephesian church and went and preached the gospel in Smyrna. So another church was formed and it grew. Then some from Smyrna hived off and went to Pergamos, and so forth. Something like this was the beginning of the fulfillment of Christ's command to his believers to be his witnesses--"and unto the uttermost parts of the earth."

[John Chrysostom]

Now a lot of the church splits being discussed here are over doctrinal differences do you think those are good?

I would contend that those churches while in different geographical areas were still connected in a common faith handed down to them by Christ and the Apostles and were still in communion with each other, I think this topic is discussing cases where churches no longer believe they hold a common belief and are no longer in communion with each other.

[Baragon]

The last church I was really involved in (only missed like two services and one of those can be blamed on Top), and the church we got married in - went through a giant split years ago. A man fell during the building of the new church building and died and I honestly don't think our head pastor dealt with it properly and from that point on, he was egotistical and demanded to have his way no matter what. I sat in during one church meeting where something wasn't going his way so he resigned and his followers were literally on their hands and knees begging him not to go. I think this happened every couple of weeks.

Eventually the associate pastor and his wife were run out the church (the older people didn't like that the wife wanted to start a teen mom outreach, the horror!), partly due to their resistance to the ego-pastor.

I just recently heard the ego-pastor left that church and is heading to California... and he seems to have gotten perspective back.

Anyway, since then, I haven't been actively involved in a church.

[Termite]

I'm talking about a geographical split. Yes, the faith must still be in the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom is the common salvation that Jude so much wanted to write about. Splitting from that is to be considered a form of rebellion and is deadly (Jude 11) . But splitting physically is another matter. The book of Revelation speaks of seven churches in Asia, not just one church in Asia. I verily believe it was God's intention that there be seven churches in Asia. And How did they actually come to be there? I like to think that perhaps some of those same saints who were exhorted by Jude to contend for the faith did just that. Some from Ephesus hived off from their ephesian church and went and preached the gospel in Smyrna. So another church was formed and it grew. Then some from Smyrna hived off and went to Pergamos, and so forth. Something like this was the beginning of the fulfillment of Christ's command to his believers to be his witnesses--"and unto the uttermost parts of the earth."

You're talking about church plants... my family's home church where we're originally from has two plants, I think. One for sure. If people are called to leave the 'home' church and go help start the new church, they do. If they're not, they don't. It's all in God's plan, however; and not because of fleshly faults that arise from discord... which is what this thread is about. Two very different things.

[Josef1004]

Well, I don't think it's necessarily just like that; and let me tell you why.
The Lord says: "I will build my church". He is personally at the controls of where and when a new church will be formed. Believers have been called not to establish churches, but to carry the gospel of Jesus Christ. Consider the scattering of the church from Jerusalem under persecution by Saul. That was not a good nice thing happening to the believers, but Acts 8:4 says "Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word." And this was the beginning of the fulfillment of Jesus' command for his disciples to be his witnesses "in all Judea, and in Samaria". Had the disciples stratagised and said, lets go plant new churches now? Nonetheless, were there new churches as a result?

Are there other examples too in Scripture that God often turns curses into blessings and works his will?

[Termite]

Well, I don't think it's necessarily just like that; and let me tell you why.
The Lord says: "I will build my church". He is personally at the controls of where and when a new church will be formed.

Well, yeah... and if He leads people to go start a church and others to join them, He's still in control.

Believers have been called not to establish churches, but to carry the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 10:25
"And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

So... churches, or 'meetings', are important. We can't be so caught up in bringing people to salvation that we neglect our own spiritual lives. God calls us to preach, but He also calls us to grow.

Consider the scattering of the church from Jerusalem under persecution by Saul. That was not a good nice thing happening to the believers, but Acts 8:4 says "Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word." And this was the beginning of the fulfillment of Jesus' command for his disciples to be his witnesses "in all Judea, and in Samaria". Had the disciples stratagised and said, lets go plant new churches now? Nonetheless, were there new churches as a result?

Are there other examples too in Scripture that God often turns curses into blessings and works his will?

That scattering isn't the same as of what we're speaking. We're talking about people getting on their soap boxes, deciding other people are stupid, and then storming off in a huff. That's wrong. The early believers scattered to live, which I'd say was a necessity and not wrong. Therefore, by scattering, they were able to spread the gospel while surviving. Two different things.

However, even without Paul they still would have dispersed to preach the gospel... God would have called, and there would have been those that listened. This is an example of what you said below, of God bringing blessings from curses... even though the curses should not have been.

1 Corinthians 1:10
"I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought."

The chapter goes on to speak about how the people of the church are divided over who they shall follow. Paul? Peter? Apollos? Easily comparable to modern times of arguing over theology.

And God still takes curses and turns them into blessings today. That doesn't mean it should have happened in the first place. So God can and will bring good and healing to a church split, if allowed, but it's still wrong and will always be wrong.

[Josef1004]

Good observations. Yes it is wrong. But maybe it's good too. I remember sometimes as a kid my brother and myself would have a fight over some little thing or another. A lot of times my mother or my dad could just settle the issue right away, pointing out how one or both of us had been wrong. Other times, however, our tempers would be so out of control that we were made to separate from each other for a time. I would be put in one room, and my brother in another, and our parents would work on us, as individuals. Maybe that's kind of how it is with God's children too. Those who end up "going off in a huff", disgusted over a brother or sister member of a church eventually make a discovery. They find out that wherever they go in order to get away from that brother or sister, there's another one just like them! They may storm off from that one too, but God disciplines his children. Eventually they will realise that it's not the other person that is the problem, it's their way of reacting to the irritation. God is working on them.

Maybe this happened in the situation between Paul and Barnabas that we can read about in Acts 15:36-41. Paul and Barnabas had been in close fellowship in the ministry, and here they cannot agree and they parted over the issue of whether or not John Mark should accompany them on a journey to visit "our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord".

But God was working on them and in the end not only were Paul and Barnabas reconciled (Col. 4:10), But Paul could say of John Mark, "He is profitable for the ministry" (2Tim 4:11)

Don't misunderstand. I don't think a church should promply split over a disagreement or that any individual should be encouraged to leave a church over a disagreement . But I think that a disconnect is just as bad as a visible division. If a church that has never had a split nods to each other and shakes hands faithfully every sunday but has no interest in each other monday through saturday, or if there are "cliques" within the church, maybe each having its own group of "pet doctrines"; then there is a disconnect-- there is no true unity in mind and thought. I don't know, but maybe I would rather that church have it out and split.

[Termite]

Good observations. Yes it is wrong. But maybe it's good too. I remember sometimes as a kid my brother and myself would have a fight over some little thing or another. A lot of times my mother or my dad could just settle the issue right away, pointing out how one or both of us had been wrong. Other times, however, our tempers would be so out of control that we were made to separate from each other for a time. I would be put in one room, and my brother in another, and our parents would work on us, as individuals. Maybe that's kind of how it is with God's children too. Those who end up "going off in a huff", disgusted over a brother or sister member of a church eventually make a discovery. They find out that wherever they go in order to get away from that brother or sister, there's another one just like them! They may storm off from that one too, but God disciplines his children. Eventually they will realise that it's not the other person that is the problem, it's their way of reacting to the irritation. God is working on them.

You know you basically made my point... wrong things can be used for good. Doesn't mean wrong things are good. Through sin, we just can't be good, therefore wrong things happen, which is why we need God to make it right. But I still don't think it should happen in the first place, though it does since none of us are perfect.

Maybe this happened in the situation between Paul and Barnabas that we can read about in Acts 15:36-41. Paul and Barnabas had been in close fellowship in the ministry, and here they cannot agree and they parted over the issue of whether or not John Mark should accompany them on a journey to visit "our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord".

But God was working on them and in the end not only were Paul and Barnabas reconciled (Col. 4:10), But Paul could say of John Mark, "He is profitable for the ministry" (2Tim 4:11)

Don't misunderstand. I don't think a church should promply split over a disagreement or that any individual should be encouraged to leave a church over a disagreement . But I think that a disconnect is just as bad as a visible division. If a church that has never had a split nods to each other and shakes hands faithfully every sunday but has no interest in each other monday through saturday, or if there are "cliques" within the church, maybe each having its own group of "pet doctrines"; then there is a disconnect-- there is no true unity in mind and thought. I don't know, but maybe I would rather that church have it out and split.

Same thing. They were imperfect and wrong, and God used that for good and taught them a lesson. Were they perfect, there wouldn't need to be a lesson. Since they weren't they needed it... though again, they shouldn't have. But they did. We're basically going in circles now... xD

I'd rather have neither... but as I've said before, the world isn't perfect, so we're stuck. That's why we are only held responsible for our own actions, thank God.

[jasonjannajerryjohn]

Protestant churches do have a tendency to split. It is how Protestantism started after all. The word Protestant comes from the word "protest," and protestant means "one who protests." In this case the Catholic church. Protestants got used to splitting over theological differences, that's why there are so many different branches of Protestants, but only one Catholic church. The word catholic means universal or whole. Thus I'm never surprised to hear a church is splitting up.