Ghosts in the Bible?

At the Second Church of Odyssey you'll find different ways of expressing your beliefs, finding prayer support or being encouraged through regular devotionals.
Post Reply
User avatar
bookworm
ToO Historian
ToO Historian
Posts: 16248
Joined: July 2006
Contact:

Ghosts in the Bible?

Post by bookworm »

Does the Bible make a case for the existence of ghosts?

The Bible mentions ghosts six times in five books. Twice Jesus’ disciples mistake Him for a ghost. (They do it on two occasions, but it makes up three of the references because Matthew and Mark both recount the same one.)

Here are the verses where the Bible expressly mentions ghosts:
1 Samuel 28:13 wrote:The king said to her, "Don't be afraid. What do you see?"
The woman said, "I see a ghostly figure coming up out of the earth."
Isaiah 29:4 wrote:Brought low, you will speak from the ground;
your speech will mumble out of the dust.
Your voice will come ghostlike from the earth;
out of the dust your speech will whisper.
Matthew 14:25-26 wrote:Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. "It's a ghost," they said, and cried out in fear.
Mark 6:48-50 wrote:Shortly before dawn he went out to them, walking on the lake. He was about to pass by them, but when they saw him walking on the lake, they thought he was a ghost. They cried out, because they all saw him and were terrified.
Luke 24:36-37 wrote:While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you."
They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost.
Alone, these verses may only show that the concept of ghosts was around in Bible times and nothing more. But, look at how Jesus responds the second time the disciples think He is a ghost.
Luke 24:38-39 wrote:He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
Notice that He doesn’t say ‘I’m not a ghost because ghosts don’t exist.’
He says ‘I’m not a ghost because I’m not like a ghost is.’
Image
User avatar
Astronomer
Catspaw Rocks!
Posts: 808
Joined: March 2012
Location: Dark Town, Ri'an

Post by Astronomer »

Interesting, Bookworm! I would guess that Jesus said such because (this is mere speculation) if he just said that ghosts did not exist, the disciples would not believe him. However, since established concepts of ghosts are that they are walk-through and not really existing in our world, then he just gave a point to show that he was not what they would believe a ghost is. Sorry if that is hard to understand.
My blog: http://www.jessericebooks.blogspot.com Where I talk about stuff and the book(s) I've published.
User avatar
BlessedCheesemaker
I'm a teapot
Posts: 437
Joined: November 2011
Location: Western Pennsylvania
Gender:

Post by BlessedCheesemaker »

I am intrigued by the possibility of ghosts. Have you ever heard the Radio Theatre's Grey Lady or Paul McCusker's Gabon Virus, because he (McCusker) makes a similar argument to yours in both of these works as to the possibility of ghosts. Honestly, it is not something that I like to think about late at night, but it is mentioned enough in the Bible to make me wonder. I still believe that the majority of so called ghost reportings aren't truly ghosts (even the witch of Endor was surprised at the appearance of Samuel's ghost, most likely meaning that what she was used to were not really ghosts at all).
Image
Awesome signiture and avatar by snubs
Check out my shop on Crestwood Avenue! Want to know more about me? Ask me a question!
User avatar
John Chrysostom
No way I broke the window
Posts: 3593
Joined: September 2007

Post by John Chrysostom »

Astronomer wrote:I would guess that Jesus said such because (this is mere speculation) if he just said that ghosts did not exist, the disciples would not believe him.
But when did the Disciples not believing Him stop Jesus from telling them things that were true or hard to understand?
User avatar
Astronomer
Catspaw Rocks!
Posts: 808
Joined: March 2012
Location: Dark Town, Ri'an

Post by Astronomer »

Ayn Rand wrote:
Astronomer wrote:I would guess that Jesus said such because (this is mere speculation) if he just said that ghosts did not exist, the disciples would not believe him.
But when did the Disciples not believing Him stop Jesus from telling them things that were true or hard to understand?
True, but Jesus often did not give a completely straight answer. Perhaps he was just giving a reason that he was not a ghost, without completely denying or acknowledging the existence of ghosts. Still, this is complete speculation on my part.
My blog: http://www.jessericebooks.blogspot.com Where I talk about stuff and the book(s) I've published.
User avatar
American Eagle
Chief of Police
Posts: 11977
Joined: September 2008
Gender:

Post by American Eagle »

I would like to note that word "ghost" originated long after Jesus walked on the earth, and its original form is gāst - meaning soul, spirit, breath. It did not necessarily mean "soul of a deceased person". That's simply the way we view it now, and I think our definition is based mostly on works of fiction. Additionally, the Greek word used in Luke 24:38-39 is πνεῦμα, which is used throughout the Bible with many definitions (including a mere person's spirit and a gust of air). The KJV, NKJV, ESV and NASB all translate it "spirit", not ghost.

If you're trying to prove that the Bible suggests the existence of modern "ghosts", it's not really a good idea to restrict yourself to solely the NIV's language. If you check the Greek word (albeit this is sometimes unreliable), and compare it with as many good translations as you can find, you'll probably end up on more solid ground.
he/him | attorney | spartan | christian | bleeding heart type

Note: My past posts do not necessarily reflect my values. Many of them were made when I was young and (in retrospect) misguided. If you identify a post that expresses misinformation, prejudice, or anything harmful, please let me know.
User avatar
John Chrysostom
No way I broke the window
Posts: 3593
Joined: September 2007

Post by John Chrysostom »

I agree we shouldn't use the NIV but should instead look to the Greek. But while the word ghost is a modern term for the soul of a deceased person the concept of the soul of a deceased person appearing is obviously not a strictly modern concept. The passage in 1 Samuel 28 talks of the spirit of Samuel, a deceased person, appearing. That would seem to be by the modern definition a ghost even if the word used originally was not ghost.
User avatar
American Eagle
Chief of Police
Posts: 11977
Joined: September 2008
Gender:

Post by American Eagle »

Ayn Rand wrote:But while the word ghost is a modern term for the soul of a deceased person the concept of the soul of a deceased person appearing is obviously not a strictly modern concept. The passage in 1 Samuel 28 talks of the spirit of Samuel, a deceased person, appearing. That would seem to be by the modern definition a ghost even if the word used originally was not ghost.
True, but wouldn't you agree that Samuel's appearance was similar to Moses and Elijah during the Transfiguration of Jesus, and less akin to "random dead people scouring the earth"?
he/him | attorney | spartan | christian | bleeding heart type

Note: My past posts do not necessarily reflect my values. Many of them were made when I was young and (in retrospect) misguided. If you identify a post that expresses misinformation, prejudice, or anything harmful, please let me know.
User avatar
John Chrysostom
No way I broke the window
Posts: 3593
Joined: September 2007

Post by John Chrysostom »

Hmmmm that is very interesting I have never heard those two events compared before. I am very inclined to agree with you. So what did happen during the Transfiguration then? Were Moses and Elijah present in both soul and body?
User avatar
American Eagle
Chief of Police
Posts: 11977
Joined: September 2008
Gender:

Post by American Eagle »

Eh, I have spent zero time studying that. My guess is that they were fully present in visual forum, but I would yield to anyone who has more thoroughly researched the matter.

To be honest, I'm mostly just speculating. :P
he/him | attorney | spartan | christian | bleeding heart type

Note: My past posts do not necessarily reflect my values. Many of them were made when I was young and (in retrospect) misguided. If you identify a post that expresses misinformation, prejudice, or anything harmful, please let me know.
User avatar
Whitty Whit
Whittier than you
Whittier than you
Posts: 5985
Joined: June 2010
Location: Somewhere

Post by Whitty Whit »

I don't really know much about this, but I would assume that in the Bible times, ghost could also refer to demons manifesting themselves as a physical form--if that's possible. I wouldn't know, since I'm not a demon.
1x admin, 2x moderator. 3-26-11, 5-25-12
Image
Jehoshaphat wrote:I mean every election is basically just choosing what type of government we want.
#FOREVERKITTY
User avatar
bookworm
ToO Historian
ToO Historian
Posts: 16248
Joined: July 2006
Contact:

Post by bookworm »

Blessed Cheesemaker wrote:I still believe that the majority of so called ghost reportings aren't truly ghosts
I agree. Most ghost experiences are explainable.
However I do believe in some level ghostly activity, I just don’t believe they’re the spirits of dead people. I think they are angels and demons, depending on what they do.
But for the most part I would say it’s just people imagining things.
Image
User avatar
The Top Crusader
Hammer Bro
Hammer Bro
Posts: 22629
Joined: April 2005
Location: A drawbridge over a lava pit with an axe conveniently off to the side

Post by The Top Crusader »

Yeah, I don't believe in ghosts as in the spirit of the dead (unless God is specifically sending a spirit to do something, like the transfiguration and imo Samuel), but there is certainly spiritual activity out there... and there is certainly "I am in a dark place that is supposedly haunted OH MY GOODNESS WAS THAT A MOTH OR WAS IT A GHOST!? IT MUST BE A GHOST!!!!" I think people imagining things and occasionally having vivid dreams is far more likely.

There are some NUT JOB CONSPIRACY THEORIES to consider as well, such as there is mention in scripture that I'm not looking up now about the spirits of the Nephalim not being able to enter into eternity and are forced to hang around on the earth. There is also the non-biblical theory I've heard and actually have come to the point of being willing to agree with that while there aren't spirits of the dead hanging around, occasionally events will leave an imprint in the area, and an event may occasionally "play" in that spot but the spirits can't be interacted with (because they aren't really there). Errr... there is a term for this and some degree of study but I'm not going to dig into that right now. Basically though there are ALWAYS the sightings of say Civil War soldiers ghosts walking around in historic areas and weird stuff like that. It's just sort of a weird glitch in science that causes those past events to re-appear. Typically it has to do with something traumatic that occured in a spot (often war related things, or crime or something).

I have not personally seen it, but locally there is a site of an old fort (that is just a field and monument now) where supposedly in certain weather conditions you will be able to see the fort there again randomly. I'm skeptical of course but it shows up quite a bit in listings of paranormal citations. A friend of mine lived directly across from there and he never saw it that I recall, but his mother insisted she did.
User avatar
bookworm
ToO Historian
ToO Historian
Posts: 16248
Joined: July 2006
Contact:

Post by bookworm »

What you’re talking about rings a vague bell Top, I think I know what you mean. But I don’t know if I agree with it.
There certainly are a multitude of ‘reappearances’ of soldiers on battlefields and the like, but I would believe most of them are wish fulfillment. People want to see them, so they do. The mind is very good at tricking you.
Image
User avatar
Stop Wooton' Around
Wooton rocks!
Wooton rocks!
Posts: 1682
Joined: August 2009
Location: College

Post by Stop Wooton' Around »

I agree with the translation issue. What about the Holy Spirt or Holy Ghost? That is described as a presence but not an actual being. So the exsistence of an actual spiritual being that can be seen is doubtful but I do believe in the presence of the Holy Spirit.
Image
User avatar
bookworm
ToO Historian
ToO Historian
Posts: 16248
Joined: July 2006
Contact:

Post by bookworm »

Clearly there was a concept of a spirit, as opposed to the modern concept of a ghost, which cannot be seen. So if that was all they thought there was, why did they think Jesus was a ghost when they saw him, if spirits can’t be seen? It seems to suggest there were two different concepts around, as there are today. The spiritual and the paranormal. Spirits and ghosts, similar but not the same.
Image
User avatar
The Top Crusader
Hammer Bro
Hammer Bro
Posts: 22629
Joined: April 2005
Location: A drawbridge over a lava pit with an axe conveniently off to the side

Post by The Top Crusader »

bookworm wrote:What you’re talking about rings a vague bell Top, I think I know what you mean. But I don’t know if I agree with it.
There certainly are a multitude of ‘reappearances’ of soldiers on battlefields and the like, but I would believe most of them are wish fulfillment. People want to see them, so they do. The mind is very good at tricking you.
Haha, yeah, re-reading my post I think I overstated my willingness to believe those theories. I don't entirely rule them out but agree that people will see what they want to see. I mean my friends and I were literally convinced there was a terrorist compound in the woods behind our school when we were kids. I mean, we were really serious, and were SURE we saw jumpsuit wearing terrorists (because this was long before 9-11 and terrorists were snazzier dressers) going in and out back there and thought we could hear "machinery" and were sure odd looking tree branches were radar dishes.
User avatar
Samantha14
All That Is Sam.
All That Is Sam.
Posts: 833
Joined: November 2012
Location: Wandering.

Post by Samantha14 »

This is definitely an interesting concept, something I don't suppose I've thought much of...

I agree about ghosts not existing in the ways the world views them today, such as what they make media and such on, and scare the kiddies away with. But, in a way, the idea of a ghost doesn't necessarily turn me off either.

The events that have been mentioned so far really intrigue me... I have to say I would agree with Bookworm when he talked about them being angels or demons, depending on what they do. But, I also have to wonder...
There is supernatural activity out there. I believe there are things such as "witches" and "spirits"... Just, not in the case that we use jokingly.
Really, it isn't much of a joking matter. Ghosts could exist, I believe. And, depending, they could be of "good" or of "evil". (As much as that can be, anyways.) But, perhaps not as much in the sense of the deceased, as you said.

The Bible also talks about how angels walk among us... I'm not exactly sure how you could translate that. I know if you look at it strictly by word, you think angels like described, maybe even in the form of ordinary people? I'm really not sure. But, perhaps there's a different side to it as well. Perhaps angels can be described in the sense of spirits? Which, I suppose would be a more appropriate way to define this sense of ghost... I don't know.

Another question that I'm thinking about... Can God send those who have passed back down to earth to finish an incomplete job? This is something that has confused me for a while now. I mean, not saying by your own wrong actions to cause it, but if you were a believer, and you died of sickness, old age, or an accident of some sort, and you had maybe one goal, one thing that you prayed and dreamed of doing. Maybe just to make things right again... And you didn't get to do it, would God allow you to? I always thought that when a believer died, their life was complete. If you had allowed for Him to, God had had you complete and fulfill His plans for you. Even if the end seemed unfair or disturbing... He could have used that said "loss" and turned it into a victory. However, something is swaying my thoughts just a bit. Have any of you ever seen the movie "A Christmas Snow"? Now, I know you cannot let your mind and beliefs be swayed by media, especially since man doesn't know the answers, only God does. However, the idea of it all... Is it something you've ever taken into consideration?

A Christmas Snow SPOILER!!!!
Alright, the entire movie (As you may or may not know) Is about this this woman named Kathleen who is a real grinch about Christmas. She owns a restaurant, and in the beginning of the movie, she gets a bad review because of her "lack of Christmas spirit". This makes her pretty unhappy. And when she gets a phone call from her mother asking her about coming to the family Christmas party, she remains even worse. After a few hours, her boy friend calls about coming to the restaurant to have diner... except, he has to bring a "friend". "Alright, who is this friend?" ...It's his daughter. *Gulp*. Now, she and his daughter don't get a long very well, mainly because his daughter is... Well, a brat to her. The reason Lucy acts so coldly around Kathleen, is because "She's... She's..." "She's what, Luc?" "So not mom...". Her mother had past away just a couple years before... And she didn't want her dad seeing anyone else. No one could replace her mother.
So, that night, the dad has to go on a business trip... But, uh-oh. Babysitter quit on them. So, guess who he relies on? "What??" Was Kathleen's response. "What happened to the baby sitter?!" "She called it off last minute." he whispers. "Com'on, I'm only going to be gone for a day, and we have no where else to go... Please?" Kathleen isn't thrilled, but says yes anyways. One last thing, the dad says that Lucy is going to be in their churches Christmas program, she's an angel, and needs help with her costume. "Alright, I can do that...I think....."
So, he leaves and they start to work... Only, she has no pins or anything. Craft store is calling. "Com'on, Lucy." "Kathleen, go, I can stay by myself." "What?!?" "I do it all the time." "I really don't think that's a good idea..." "Kathleen, I'm ten years old. I am not a child." (*Insert dying laughing here.*) Well, after a rule check, and lock check for that matter, she heads off to the store. It's cold and foggy, and she can hardly see a thing. She's trying to wipe off her windshield, and find something to do it with when. *Thud*, she hits something. It's scares her half to death because she saw it was a person... But, when she looks up, the mysterious man simply glances at her. She mouths "I'm sorry", and he tips his hat and continues onward.
A few minutes later and she's at the craft store. She picks up what she needs, and starts to head to the check out when two thuggish guys ride a skateboard in her way. "Watch it!" She yells, then rushes to the check out counter. After doing so, she goes out. One problem, she can't find her keys. She starts digging in her purse to find it, when suddenly she hears a voice. "Hey, lose somethin' lady?" It was that thug from before. "No, no, I'm fine, really." The other one comes and says "Are you sure? Here, let me help you!!" He snatches her purse away, and she tries to tug it back. They continue until we hear "Back in my day boys were suppose to be gentlemen to the lady." A cold sweat arises, and glares are exchanged. "Now, if you would kindly give her back her purse." "Oh yeah, old man?" He comes at him, only to get grabbed by the shirt collar. "I said it, and I meant it boy." "Spsssh, whatever." "Oh, you want it? Here!" He says as he throws the purse down on the ground, causing everything to spill out. They then go to harass the man more, but when that happens, he comes back, only to get beamed in the head with their skateboard. "Com'on, let's get out of here!" They ran off. There this stranger lies, Kathleen looking at him in horror. "Sir?? Sir, are... Are you alright??" He jumps, causing Kathleen to jump. "Yes, yes, I'm alright, I'm fine." "Oh, good." She sighs in relief, but is still concerned. "Ooh, you're bleeding." "Ah." He says touching his wound. "It's just a scratch." He then places his hat back on his head. "See? All better." "Well... *Sigh* Thank you, for saving me. And, I want to apologize for nearly running over you." "Ah, it's alright. He replied, grinning in the grandfatherly style that he really was."No worries, it was an accident. And, I'm alright." "Is there anywhere that I can take you? Do you have a home somewhere around here?" "Well, I was trying to catch the bus to the next town..." "Well," She pauses... "Here, I can take you to the station. Get in."
A few minutes later and they arrive... Only to find that the last bus had already left and the station was now closed until the next morning, and the next bus wasn't until 9. It's beginning to snow, and all is frosted over. "Where are you going to go? Where are you going to sleep tonight?" "Well, I can pretty much make myself comfortable anywhere." "What?! Oh, no. I nearly killed you, you saved me, I'm not going to let you die out here in this weather!" She looked at him... "Get in." "What?" "You're coming home with me, get in." "No, no, I can't let you do that." "No arguing, now come on." "Well... Thank you."
When they get back, she shows him to a guest room, and then is still very worried about this stranger being in the house. She picks up a sleeping Lucy and brings her to her room, lays her on her bed, and runs and locks the door. Pressing her ear up against it for just a few, just in case. (Please, do not try such things at home, thank you. :P )
The next morning comes bright and early, but not for Kathleen. She over slept, and her alarm didn't go off. What's worse? Lucy is gone. She panics, grabbing the closest thing for defense as possible. (An umbrella.) She comes running in the next room like a maniac! Only to find Lucy and Sam, in the kitchen drinking hot chocolate. They laugh at her, as she looks embarrassed. "Well, no matter, it's time for work and school anyways." "there is no school." "What?!?" Kathleen snapped. "Look outside." She then rushes to the window, and what to her wondering eyes does she see but over two feet of snow. "This can't work, I HAVE to get to work." So, she tries shoveling... That didn't work. She wants Lucy to stay with her, because she still doesn't know about Sam. But, that doesn't work. After a few tries, she gives up. "I need to call your father..." Going inside the house, she looks for her phone... Only to realize that she left it at the restaurant. "What am I going to do now??" Thankfully, Lucy has a phone. The dad is not thrilled about a stranger, but after a long discussion, "Just... Be careful, alright?"
So many things happen during this time, and they begin to get to know each other more. They're at the counter, when they realize they might be snowed in on Christmas... This makes Lucy cry. "Do you really think we'll be stuck here on Christmas? She asks, tearfully. Sam puts his arm around her. "Now, now. Don't cry." "But, but..." "I'm sure that won't happen. And, even if it does... We'll make the best out of it." "How?!? How could we make this week, and especially that day, better?"
These words were answered, and it was made the best time. Including a Christmas skit, burnt marshmallows, a life story... All until a fight between Kathleen and Lucy about who had "Issues" or not nearly spoiled it. She and Sam talked for a while that night... Kathleen explained why she had never been a fan around Christmas time.
"I was ten year old... Lucy's age. I was around midnight on Christmas Eve, and I should have been in bed. We had just got done decorating the Christmas tree a few hours before, and I used to love to go and lie down under it, watching the lights... I was doing it that night. And, I heard yelling from my mom and dad's room. I knew they had issues... *Sigh* But, I never thought it would happen... I heard a slam, and my father came stomping down the stairs. I hid behind the closest edge of the couch, and watched. He walked out the door, and down the steps. I ran to the window, and knocked on it. My tears clearly seen. He simply glared at me for a second... And then he walked on. He walked on, Sam. On Christmas Eve of all days..." "I know the feeling." "Did your father run away from you?" Sam sighed... "No, I'm afraid I was the one who did the running." Kathleen stared at Sam in shock... "Ho-How could you do that?" He explained how his father was the same way, and he didn't want to be like him... But, the older he got, the more he would become... Finally it got to the point of taking over his life, and he couldn't bring himself to change. Finally, he left. He knew he couldn't change, but he didn't want to make them live through that. Later on, he became a Christian, and wanted oh, so much to make things right. He wanted to forgive, and beg for forgiveness. But, at first he didn't think that they would ever forgive him... Then he set out on a quest to try. He wanted to find his daughter and get her forgiveness, and tell her how sorry he was most... And, to give her this: Sam pulled out a pocket watch, gold to be exact. And the Bible he read from often.
The talked more, as he explained that that's the reason he was getting on the bus, and she explained how her mother remarried later on, and how she couldn't stand it. He was an alright guy, but he wasn't her dad. Just like she wasn't Lucy's mom... She sighed. "That's why I haven't been in touch with my mom in so many years." "That's not good..." "I know..." "Perhaps you should try out forgiveness as well, huh?"
A couple days went by, and the power finally came back on, and life could get back to normal. Only, Lucy didn't want that. She liked having fun with Sam and Kathleen, (That is, after having a big apology session with her.)
But, after talking once again, and being able to get things settled, she finally calmed down some. Later that morning, Sam comes into the kitchen where they're at with his suitcase and his hat. He's planning on leaving, because he has a bus to catch. But, Kathleen and Lucy don't approve... At least, not yet. They ask him about staying until after Christmas, he simply answers "We'll see." Kathleen and Lucy have to go get her dad from the air port, but insist on Sam getting ready and meeting them at three for a meal at Kathleen's restaurant. They hurry off to her car, and wave. He reaches his hand on the glass oh the window, and sadly turns away.
Almost three, and Kathleen is back home to pick up Sam. she notices the package that Sam had mentioned seeing earlier in the snow sitting on the counter when she put her things down, but didn't pay it any mind. "Wow, Sam, the house looks great! You honestly didn't have to clean up around here, though. Just let me change and we can go to the dinner." Silence. "Sam?" ... "Sam??" He's no where to be found, the bedroom he stayed in was as it was before he came... All perfectly normal. All that's there is the little Christmas list that they had each made earlier, with the words, "To find my daughter", on it, and the package. She has no idea. But, before she goes to find him, his words and his note inspire her to try to find and contact her father. Only, when she looks him up, she finds "Born-#### Died- ####... She's heart broken. She goes off to call Lucy's dad about it, when she notices she has messages on it. As she listens, she hears one "Kathleen, it's your mother. *Sigh* I was hoping to get to talk to you about this... But, ... It's about your father. He... He passed away the other day. I was just told of it." Tears begin to fill her eyes as she calls him, but Lucy answers the phone. "Hey, Kathleen. Where are you? Are you coming?" "well, sweety, uh... Something's come up. Can I talk to your dad a minute?" After explaining, and crying a bit, she goes back into the other room. There sits that package. Her curiosity is peaked, so she opens it up... Only to find a will, a few letters, a Bible... And the golden pocket watch. "S-Sam?" She stops.... Shaking, and tears filling her eyes, she holds the pocket watch close to her heart. She reads the inscription on the inside of the Bible, "To my dearest Katie." It went on to talk about how he prayed for her to find peace and love in God, and to find and give forgiveness. And that he would always love her. With this, she closed the Bible, and went off to her room to pack. She was going to her mother's house for that Christmas party, she was going to forgive and forget.
Off of the plane, out of the cab, and now standing in front of her mother and step father's house. Her mother answers, expecting early guests, when she sees her daughter standing in the doorway. "H-hi mom." Kathleen grins, tearfully. "Katie? My Katie? My dear Katie, come here." With this they embraced each other, and cried tears of joy. Her step father walks in, seeing who it is, at first he's worried... But, then he realizes they're happy tears. And all goes well. As the parents go into the kitchen to finish preparing the food, Kathleen goes to their tree. And, pulling out the one last thing she had of their old family Christmas's, an angel, she places it on the tree, and says, "I choose, to forgive." With this, she glanced out the window, and who do you think was looking at her from across the street? "Daddy??" She smiled, yet cried. He smiled back. She showed him the pocket watch, and he smiled again. Then, as his last words, he said, "Merry Christmas, Katie." "Merry Christmas daddy! I love you!" Kathleen cried, and a bus passed down the street, looking back, he was gone.
This story really touched me, and made me think quite a bit. Do you think this sort of thing could really happen?
Do you think, since in the sense of spirits and angels, angels are messengers, as well as protectors, and other things... If God can do anything, could he used those that have passed to give messages, and fulfill plans? I really am not sure, but it's an interesting idea to me... What do you guys think?

(The story that goes a long with this story, the one that Sam read them, is Luke 2:25-32, if anyone would like to find a way to relate it.)
merp.
User avatar
Jason Whits Son
Catspaw Rocks!
Posts: 965
Joined: August 2009
Location: Best Small Town in America

Post by Jason Whits Son »

First of all I agree with a comment made by AE about how the concept of ghost may not be exactly what we think of today. Are those references enough of support for ghosts? I'm thinking not, mainly because as someone else mentioned these situations seem more of exclaiming what it could be. I'm inclined to believe that (as AE said with the original Greek being translated to spirit) they didn't think it to be a "ghost" but closer to that of an angel or demon.

As for the question posed by Sammy, I'm inclined to believe that God could use angels today, but it just doesn't seem to happen. Could He send back someone to relay a message? I believe he could, but on the other hand I don't think it' be an obvious action and might just be seen as God himself sending a sign. Which would be hard to prove one way or another.

Do I believe in Ghosts? No. I believe in angels and Demons, but ghosts are simply a matter of imagination. (Imho) Probably in every ghost reporting, there is a reasonable explanation for whatever happened. Do I believe that demons walk visibly on Earth? Not really, I believe that demons can take the form of different things in different people's lives. But places that people claim to be haunted? Sure there's a creepiness factor, but that's it.
User avatar
bookworm
ToO Historian
ToO Historian
Posts: 16248
Joined: July 2006
Contact:

Post by bookworm »

Since this thread has picked back up again, I think I should let everyone know it was made as a joke. ;)
I do not believe in ghosts (per se, as explained earlier) and I was certainly not trying to prove their existence with a handful of verses that happen to use the word.

However I was genuinely interested in Jesus’ choice of words in dismissing the disciples’ fears. But that could just be a matter of loose translation for all I know.
So this isn’t meant to be taken extremely seriously; it’s just something to think about.
Image
Post Reply