Theist (but not a "Christian") Q & A!

[Kait]

Everyone else gets a Q & A thread so I thought I should too.


I am a Theist. I'm not a Christian because I don't believe I need to accept Jesus as the Messiah in order to have a relationship with God.

Ask away.

[Dr. Watson]

Given this:

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Do you think your assertion is tenable?

[John Chrysostom]

How does having a relationship with God affects your life?

What is your view of the historical figure Jesus of Nazareth?

Do you believe that your theistic views were held by the Early Church or do you view the Early Church as a Pauline construct?

Do you identify with any historical groups of theist?

Do you currently attend any houses of worship?

[sheltiez]

So if your not a Christian, why are you on a Christian web site about a Christian radio drama?

[Kait]

Given this:

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Do you think your assertion is tenable?

If someone came up to you on the street and said "Hey dude, you can't have a relationship with God unless you come through ME first!" you would tell him he was off his rocker.

Which isn't to say Jesus is off his rocker, but I think you get where I am going with this. Jesus did not fulfill the picture of Messiah prophesied about in the Old Testament. He didn't fulfill any prophecies (at least real Messianic prophecies, rather than ones that are misattributed to being Messianic). He was one of many many people who had followers who thought he was Messiah. There were lots of them back then. So basically I see no reason to believe he was the Messiah over anyone else throughout history.

How does having a relationship with God affects your life?

What is your view of the historical figure Jesus of Nazareth?

Do you believe that your theistic views were held by the Early Church or do you view the Early Church as a Pauline construct?

Do you identify with any historical groups of theist?

Do you currently attend any houses of worship?

I suppose it affects my life the same way it does anyone else's. I try to live a life pleasing to Him and show His love to everybody. He guides me through life, and does lots of awesome things for me. =)


Hmm. I'm not entirely sure how to answer the second question. I suppose I see him as a great moral teacher who was kind of a nobody to most people outside of his followers, who (at the time he died) were fairly few and far between.


The Early Church was a conglomeration of views. While it was primarily a Pauline construct, there was no consensus as far as theological or doctrinal views go. It wasn't until many hundreds of years after Jesus' death that Christianity as we know it today was really "nailed down". So I wouldn't say that everyone in the early church held my theistic viewpoints, but I'm sure that some followers didn't view Jesus as the end-all-be-all of a relationship with God.

I don't particularly identify with any historical group of theists, no.

And I do not attend anywhere for services, although I would probably feel most comfortable in a Universalist Unitarian church.

So if your not a Christian, why are you on a Christian web site about a Christian radio drama?

Because I wasn't aware AIO was only for Christians. Which is to say I enjoy the series just the same as you. It's pretty much awesome. I also love Veggie Tales. And the Chronicles of Narnia. Just because I'm not a Christian doesn't mean I can't appreciate shows produced by Christians.

[The Kings Daughter]

Jesus did not fulfill the picture of Messiah prophesied about in the Old Testament. He didn't fulfill any prophecies (at least real Messianic prophecies, rather than ones that are misattributed to being Messianic).

Would you mind listing a few for us?

[Kait]

I suppose Isaiah 53 is the most common one attributed to Jesus but in actuality is talking about the nation of Israel.

[John Chrysostom]

How do you discern what is pleasing to God?

[ric]

Do you believe God has revealed himself to people over the course of history? If so, how?

[~JCGJ~]

Do you believe that the Messiah has already come?

If so, who do you believe that to be?

[Astronomer]

If Jesus was a false messiah like the others of his time, then how come his followers are still prevalent in the world rather than those others?

[Kait]

How do you discern what is pleasing to God?

If it aligns with God's nature, which I see to be all-loving, merciful and just. I believe we are given a conscience for a reason and that if one is seeking God, he will use that "still small voice" to help you determine what is right and wrong. I suppose that can be ambiguous, but all morals are, really.

Do you believe God has revealed himself to people over the course of history? If so, how?

Sure he has. I believe most religions have aspects of God in them. I believe he is revealed through nature and through the inherent goodness of humans. I'm sure God has revealed himself in many more ways than I would be able to identify.

Do you believe that the Messiah has already come?

If so, who do you believe that to be?

No, I don't.

If Jesus was a false messiah like the others of his time, then how come his followers are still prevalent in the world rather than those others?

I can't answer that. But for me, it isn't really good enough of a reason to believe in him.

[sheltiez]

You sound similar to a Jew. What are the differences between Theists and Jews?

A user from the Soda Shop message boards asked me to ask you what you think of C.S. Lewis' Trilemma? I will post it below in case you are unfimiliar with it. This is from a talk on BBC radio.

"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronising nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to. ... Now it seems to me obvious that He was neither a lunatic nor a fiend: and consequently, however strange or terrifying or unlikely it may seem, I have to accept the view that He was and is God."

[ric]

Do you believe God has revealed himself to people over the course of history? If so, how?

Sure he has. I believe most religions have aspects of God in them.

Why would he reveal himself through multiple (and often contradictory) religions? Why not just have one correct one?

I think I did ask you about the trilemma a while ago, but I don't quite remember what you said.

[John Chrysostom]

Do you believe in an objective reality? Or in objective morals?

Where there any writers, theologians, or philosophers who led you to this belief system?

[Astronomer]

What is your opinion in the martyrdom of the early church? If they knew Jesus and knew that he didn't rise from the dead, then why would they willingly give their lives for a hoax?

Can you give any prophecies that Jesus did not fulfill?

[Christian A.]

Do you believe in any sort of afterlife? If so, what do you think determines your placing there? (e.g. If you believe in heaven, how good do you have to be to get there?)

[Kait]

You sound similar to a Jew. What are the differences between Theists and Jews?

Just as an FYI, the term "Jew/a Jew" and "Jews/the Jews" is really offensive to Jewish people. "Jewish people", "Israelites" and "Hebrews" are all acceptable when describing the group as a whole and "Jewish" is acceptable if describing an individual.

And as far as your question, a Theist basically just believes that a god exists but doesn't necessarily take a stance on any particular theological issues. If they do, they can be a very wide range of things. So we can't really lump them all together. I myself definitely have a very Jewish flavour to my beliefs because it is something I really identify with. And they are subject to change at any moment.

A user from the Soda Shop message boards asked me to ask you what you think of C.S. Lewis' Trilemma? I will post it below in case you are unfimiliar with it. This is from a talk on BBC radio.

I am familiar with Lewis' Trilemma argument. I find it to logically fallacious. You are given only three choices and those are supposed to be the only three choices. It's kind of a false dichotomy...trichotomy? As well as a bit of an ad hominem attack.

Another option could be that Jesus never claimed to be God (pretty much were I stand) thereby eliminating the whole issue.

As far as the ad hominem, just because Jesus might have "lied" about this one thing, doesn't automatically discount the merit of any of his other teachings. His other teachings and sermons need to be evaluated in their own right, and the fact he might have lied about being God shouldn't effect that evaluation.

Also, Jesus might have just been a loony bin. That is always a valid possibility.

Why would he reveal himself through multiple (and often contradictory) religions? Why not just have one correct one?

I think I did ask you about the trilemma a while ago, but I don't quite remember what you said.

Why wouldn't he reveal himself multiple times, in multiple places to multiple people? There is no one religion that has it all right (the fact they are contradictory in some areas should tell you that). And honestly, because people don't come back from the dead to tell us what happens afterward, there really is no verifiable way to KNOW which religion is the right one. That is why it is called belief. In addition to the fact that Christianity is one of the newest religions on the planet. If that's the case, then what about religions that existed before it? Are they wrong because God hadn't ACTUALLY revealed himself yet? They were just worshipping...nothing?

I think it is pretty arrogant for people who believe in a particular religion to claim that God only revealed himself to them through this particular religion and everyone else out there is worshipping a false god or somesuch. Who are we to limit who and where and how God reveals himself? We aren't.

Do you believe in an objective reality? Or in objective morals?

Where there any writers, theologians, or philosophers who led you to this belief system?

Perhaps you can expound on your first two-part question a bit? "Objective reality"can mean different things to different people.

And no, there were no particular people who led me to where I am. Just a conglomeration of research, reading and study that I have done over the years.

What is your opinion in the martyrdom of the early church? If they knew Jesus and knew that he didn't rise from the dead, then why would they willingly give their lives for a hoax?

Can you give any prophecies that Jesus did not fulfill?

Let's say Jesus didn't rise from the dead. Well honestly, the early church in the timeframe you are thinking of wouldn't necessarily have known that. There were only a couple of people who were supposed to have seen the empty tomb. And just because people had visions or experiences with Jesus after he died doesn't necessarily make him anymore alive, especially considering that for the first 50 years after Jesus died, all of the stories that we now read in the gospels weren't actually written down. They were passed around orally. (Imagine a giant game of telephone. Yeah.) So for the first 50 years, Jesus' handful of followers passed around all these stories about him that could have changed or evolved along the way. Even the story of his "resurrection". It wasn't until 50 years later that they were actually written down. And today, the EARLIEST manuscripts we have were written several hundred years later than that, even.

Which is to say that perhaps, if he didn't rise from the dead, the early church still believed he did. (I'm not saying one way or the other what happened. I wasn't there so I don't know. )

Do you believe in any sort of afterlife? If so, what do you think determines your placing there? (e.g. If you believe in heaven, how good do you have to be to get there?)

I do. I guess. I believe in it but I am perfectly open to the idea that there isn't one. Because there really is no way to know for sure. So assuming there is one, this is how I see "getting there". Imagine an old time balance scale. The ones they used to make sure things weighed the same. On one side of the scale you have "The Good Inclination" (the part of us that is in God's image,the selfless, loving, good part), then on the other side you have "The Bad Inclination" (the part of us that is human, fallen, and prone to selfishness, hate and evility). Every deed you perform in your life, gets put on one side of the scale of the other. Either the action is in God's image, or it's human and fallen. Hopefully, by the time that we die, our "Good inclination" side of the scale will be weighted down far, far more than the "Bad Inclination" side. If it is, it shows we lived our lives in God's image, how He would want us to.

Then, maybe we'd have a chance to be with Him for eternity.

If we've lived our lives in such a way that our "bad inclination" side is the weightier, then I don't think we'll have much of a shot at that. We might be separated from him for an eternity.

That being said, I don't believe in Hell.

[Christian A.]

Do you believe in any sort of afterlife? If so, what do you think determines your placing there? (e.g. If you believe in heaven, how good do you have to be to get there?)

I do. I guess. I believe in it but I am perfectly open to the idea that there isn't one. Because there really is no way to know for sure. So assuming there is one, this is how I see "getting there". Imagine an old time balance scale. The ones they used to make sure things weighed the same. On one side of the scale you have "The Good Inclination" (the part of us that is in God's image,the selfless, loving, good part), then on the other side you have "The Bad Inclination" (the part of us that is human, fallen, and prone to selfishness, hate and evility). Every deed you perform in your life, gets put on one side of the scale of the other. Either the action is in God's image, or it's human and fallen. Hopefully, by the time that we die, our "Good inclination" side of the scale will be weighted down far, far more than the "Bad Inclination" side. If it is, it shows we lived our lives in God's image, how He would want us to.

Then, maybe we'd have a chance to be with Him for eternity.

So then, do you believe God would just sort of...be gracious and overlook the sins that we've committed, if the good outweighs the bad? You stated earlier that you believe God is just. A just judge who sees any lawbreaking on the table has to oversee the carrying out of some sort of punishment. No matter how many old ladies a pedophile has helped across the street, he still has the pedophilia to answer for. Yes, God is merciful, but He still must be just, so somehow His mercy on us has to be in keeping with His justice. I believe that's where Jesus comes in. What is your opinion on all that?

[John Chrysostom]

By objective reality I mean what is true, moral, and right for me is true, moral, and right for you as well.

Is the way in which God reveals Himself universally constant or does it depend on the individual?