Did God originally create the four seasons?

[Tea Ess]

I posted this thought on both the Soda Shop and Campbell County, so I decided as long as I was at it, I may as well post it here too. It is purely speculation derived from accumulated knowledge. In other words, the things that sound familiar I got from some place else, and the things that don't I made up.

I was wondering whether God designed the world to have four seasons. I know that each season offers amazing beauty, but I am not sure whether He created them when He made the rest of the world.

I know that in Eden, there was no death or pain. Having a cold winter would mean that either the plants and animals then had more resistance to the cold. Possibly, there was no winter then. If there was no rain until the Flood, then there wouldnt have been snow, or icicles, which makes a winter rather pointless. No snow would also mean much less insulation for plant life form the dry air and cold.

I also wonder then if there was a rotation then like we have now. I know that Earth does not circle the sun perfectly, it has an ellipse instead. Could it be that there originally was a perfectly cicrular orbit then? This would mean a more balanced yearly temperature. Also, when God made the earth, He separated the waters above and the waters below. There was no rain until the Flood. Possibly, the upper layer of water, most likely a vapor, or mist, insulated the earth, making it an even temperature, and sheltering us from the sun more.

I wonder, that when God gave us the rainbow, He gave us the result of physics that He had already made, that He revealed something that had already been set in place. Could this be the case with the seasons as well, in that we were not experiencing them, but the potential was there?

[~JCGJ~]

Well, I don't have much time, but I'll post what I can...

One thing I do know is that many Creationists believe that the Earth had a big "canopy" (sp) of water vapor that insulated the Earth, keeping the general temp. fairly even throughout the Earth (I know you just said that, but I figured I'd reiterate (sp) it...).
God may have caused the canopy to collapse durring the flood (thus providing much of the rain for the fourty days).
If this was the case, it would explain the evidence for an "Ice Age" that geoligists etc. are finding; if the layor of insulation that constantly covered the Earth suddenly dissappeared, it would make sense that the temp. of the Earth would plummet...
However, the revolution of the Earth around the Sun likely heated the Earth, and regulated the tempratures, therefor causing our seasons to arise, etc. and so on...

That's the very condensed version of a very long and complicated schpiel (yes, I said "schpiel...").

Also, that's only my take on it. There are many other ways you can look at it.

And (especially if Quad-J shows up in here...) you might get some very different answers than mine...

[ique]

Wasn't Eden likely to have been somewhere around.... I don't know, Ethiopia or something? That area of the world doesn't really experience cold, snowy winters as we've come to associate with the word "winter".

Furthermore, I don't see why things would suddenly have been different. Where does the bible say that after Adam was expelled from Eden that the physics of the entire universe were altered? o_O

And what do you mean there wasn't rain before the flood? How did plants thrive in said garden?

[Tea Ess]

Good question. The garden would have been watered through rivers, springs, and overnight mists.

Please note that I did not say the physics of the universe were changed. I was speculating, that as the rainbow was revealed, as a result of physics already in place, that God revealed other things in association to the water system and weather.

Eden most likely would already be someplace warm. However, if the world was perfect and without death, than I was doubting that we had long cold winters. Most people who think winter is so beautiful (which it is), are referring to icicles, and snow, which would not have existed if rain had never fallen.

JCGJ: Thank you for everything you have added. I have also heard that all the volcanic activity during the Flood propelled a lot of ash into the atmosphere, reflecting the sunlight and cooling the Earth's temperature further.

And (especially if Quad-J shows up in here...) you might get some very different answers than mine...

I know.

[~JCGJ~]

Wasn't Eden likely to have been somewhere around.... I don't know, Ethiopia or something? That area of the world doesn't really experience cold, snowy winters as we've come to associate with the word "winter".

Furthermore, I don't see why things would suddenly have been different. Where does the bible say that after Adam was expelled from Eden that the physics of the entire universe were altered? o_O

And what do you mean there wasn't rain before the flood? How did plants thrive in said garden?

If there was a canopy of vapor covering the Earth, there would have been no need for rain, because the water would be fairly evenly spread throughout the Earth.
A canopy would also explain why it sounded so ridiculous to the people of Noah's time that water would fall from the sky.
Furthermore, it could explain why people lived so long before the flood. They've done different computer modals, and many interesting tests that provide evidence that a large canopy of water vapor covering the Earth would speed the body's natural healing proccesses by nearly 300%, and would provide prolonged life.

I'm not saying that there was "deffinately, without a doubt" a canopy covering the Earth... I'm just saying that it's one of the best explainations we have that explains many things the Bible says about the Earth before and after the flood.

I have done my research into the subject, so if you have questions, shoot, and I'll try my best to answer them.

[Jesus' Princess]

Interesting question you have here! Sometimes I wonder about there actually being 4 seasons where I live, haha. It seems like we have fall, winter, winter, spring. and then summer for 4 weeks and back to fall Anyways...

The verse that comes to mind here is Genesis 8:22.

Genesis 8:22As long as the earth endures,
seedtime and harvest,
cold and heat,
summer and winter,
day and night
will never cease.

Seedtime and harvest is spring and fall, and cold and heat/summer and winter, is summer and winter. As to were they created from the start, well I think things point to the Garden of Eden being near the equator, so naturally the seasons would be more mild there, and winter as we know it would be much less harsh. Think about winter in florida even, adn then go further south. The whole canopy theory is an interesting one, and it very well could be true. It's interesting to think about, and does seem to make sense.

[~JCGJ~]

Interesting question you have here! Sometimes I wonder about there actually being 4 seasons where I live, haha. It seems like we have fall, winter, winter, spring. and then summer for 4 weeks and back to fall Anyways...

It seems like we have just the oppisite here in SC...

The verse that comes to mind here is Genesis 8:22.

Genesis 8:22As long as the earth endures,
seedtime and harvest,
cold and heat,
summer and winter,
day and night
will never cease.

You took that from my signature, didn't you?

[Jesus' Princess]

The verse that comes to mind here is Genesis 8:22.

Genesis 8:22As long as the earth endures,
seedtime and harvest,
cold and heat,
summer and winter,
day and night
will never cease.

You took that from my signature, didn't you?

I did? *looks* Oh! Sorry, no it was actually the first thing that popped into my head after reading through this thread.

[Whitty Whit]

Well there wasn't any rain before the flood, so God "technically" didn't give us the rainbow. (read: He didn't actually place it there) He knew it was going to happen because of the laws of physics he created.

[~JCGJ~]

You state that there was no rain before the Flood like it's a confirmed fact, when (in my recolection of the book of Genesis) it never states such a fact.

I agree that there likely was no rain before the flood, but I didn't say that it was fact.

I hope you realize that the Canopy theory etc. are simply theories that give a good answer to some of our questions, but they aren't anywhere near fact.

[Whitty Whit]

I never said it was fact. It was a declarative sentence, but I never proclaimed "this is fact." Don't criticize.

I hope you realize I never questioned any theories and stated that any widely believed theories are facts.

[DanP740]

I would like to point out that not many people believe the canopy theory anymore.

[~JCGJ~]

Which is the main reason why I made clear that it was simply a theory.

However, I still believe it to be a fairly viable theory.

[Dr. Watson]

You state that there was no rain before the Flood like it's a confirmed fact, when (in my recolection of the book of Genesis) it never states such a fact.

I would note this is fairly conclusive:

When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground,
Genesis 2:6: and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground—

Especially when compared with verses denoting God sending the flood:

For in seven days I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground.”

and

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

[~JCGJ~]

You state that there was no rain before the Flood like it's a confirmed fact, when (in my recolection of the book of Genesis) it never states such a fact.

I would note this is fairly conclusive:

When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground,
Genesis 2:6: and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground—

I stand corrected.

Thank you for posting the verse.

[Tea Ess]

Thank you, Dr. Watson. It's been a while since I've read Genesis.

[Mark Prescott]

I'm not sure if anyone has said it already, but there are not *Just* four seasons. In India, they have the Monsoon season and the non-season. And in Africa, they have wet and dry seasons. In fact, my step mother went to India, and they asked her when summer was. So no, I do not believe God created the four seasons.

[Termite]

On the question of seasons, think of fall. What happens in fall? Everything dies.

I don't believe God intended death. Before Adam and Eve ate the fruit, there was no sin. Why would we ever had to be separate from God and then our mortal bodies die in order to go back to Him? There would have been no need of death. As my instructor pointed out only this morning, the first death recorded in the Bible is the animal whose skin was used by God to create coverings for Adam and Eve. (heh, the first blood shed to cover another's sin... right from the start. anyway.)

So no, I don't believe God originally created the seasons... how ever many there are. In fall and winter everything dies and is desolate, but in spring everything comes to life. In the New Testament, somewhere in Romans, I think, it mentions that the earth is groaning and seeking release. I personally think natural disasters come from this, and some of those are that which we are accustomed to in the seasons. But death is an enemy, and even though we've accepted the seasons (fall is my favorite!) I don't think death would have been God's plan. Why kill something in paradise?

[Tea Ess]

That's a very good point, Termite.

Drawing off of what you said, we can organize all the seasons into two categories: a season of death, and a season of rebirth and growth.

So, Mark Prescott, I would agree that there is much variety in seasons around the world, but they are always group-able into a dead state and an alive state, for lack of a better term. Instead of snow and cold, in Africa they would have the dry season. I agree with the overall point you made, but I still feel that even though there may be variations to the seasons, they are not in-classifiable.

[SoccerLOTR]

Interesting topic...I do agree with the theories that people have stated thus far regarding how the earth was originally, but at the same time, question why the other seasons would be so beautiful if God hadn't created them--does that mean that God continued creating and changing the earth after the flood? The one thing I know is that God knew what was going to happen and had the earth planned out to continue to provide for us...but if the world was actually like that before the flood, I do not know.