Something we miss often

[Blitz]

http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... -the-bible
I felt the need to share this because we often take what this article addresses flippantly.

[bookworm]

I only skimmed the article, but my attention was caught by the part that seemed to be chiding people that consider themselves to be close to God. I may have missed something that puts it in better context, but what I read was essentially saying ‘God is infinitely above you, how dare you treat Him like simply a friend?’ That is complete nonsense. Of course God is above us, and of course our attitude toward Him needs to be one of respect and reverence, but that doesn’t mean we also can’t view him as a friend. The two are not mutually exclusive. God is more then a friend, he is our Heavenly Father. He wants us to be so close to Him that we consider Him a friend and talk to Him as one through our prayers.

[Blitz]

But neither does he want you to treat him like Obama does, God bless me, and I can do what ever I want. But he does have mercy unlike a king who when you disobey you really are in trouble. We more than often take God flippantly. We have to fear him yet he is our friend.

[Termite]

"Perfect love casts out fear".

God is love.

Therefore, God casts out fear. It is to Him we cry "Abba, Father!" You know, when the Bible mentions 'fear' in reference to God, it's not the emotional fear of being frightened, but of reverence.

We have respect, awe, and reverence for our Father, but we do not have to fear Him as the demons do. I do not fear my God. He loves me, He saved me, and I've been washed by His blood. I have no fear of Him... for we are told to 'come boldly before the throne' (Hebrews 4:16). Fear and boldness do not mix; therefore, we can not both fear God and come boldly before the throne. Why would He tell us to come boldly and expect us to fear Him in the sense of being scared? We can't be bold if we are terrified to face Him. But the truth is that He wants us to come. He wants us to trust Him and love Him; not because we're driven by fear if we don't, but because we want to.

It is true that grace is no excuse for sin, and because of His grace we have the mercy of His forgiveness... but I think the problem isn't that people treat God flippantly; I think many people just don't know Him, and therefore don't know how to treat Him. *shrug*

[Tea Ess]

I find it amusing that each of us read the article and thought of entirely different points regarding it.

At least to some extent, I agree with each one of you. Our opinions probably differ the most because of alternate locations and backgrounds.

First, Bookworm. I always enjoy reading what you have to say. However, I didn't get that message at all from the article. I get the point you are trying to make, but I took it in a completely different way. To me, it conveyed something more along the lines of 'God is indefinitely above you, and yet He still values you enough to sacrifice His own Son for you. Therefore, do not treat Him flippantly, but respect and honor Him because of His greatness and sacrifice.' I don't think that the author was condemning the friendship in our relations with Him, I think he was condemning our trying to pull Jesus down to our level, or using our relationship to brush off God's authority.

Blitz, thank you for sharing this article. I really enjoyed it. I mostly agreed with what you said. You're right in saying that some try to take advantage of God's grace. Ill take what you said one step further: that without reverence (fear) of God, we will never have a true friendship.

Termite, I would disagree with your last statement. We are told in Romans that 'man is without excuse'. I think that, to a certain extent, even on a desert island we could learn to know God through His creation, and treat Him accordingly. It is definitely confusing with our culture today and so many conflicting beliefs, but still feasible. I experienced a bit of this with relatives. They have treated God flippantly, but have heard the truth and chosen otherwise.

[Blitz]

We have respect, awe, and reverence for our Father, but we do not have to fear Him as the demons do. I do not fear my God. He loves me, He saved me, and I've been washed by His blood. I have no fear of Him... for we are told to 'come boldly before the throne' (Hebrews 4:16). Fear and boldness do not mix; therefore, we can not both fear God and come boldly before the throne. Why would He tell us to come boldly and expect us to fear Him in the sense of being scared? We can't be bold if we are terrified to face Him. But the truth is that He wants us to come. He wants us to trust Him and love Him; not because we're driven by fear if we don't, but because we want to.

It is true that grace is no excuse for sin, and because of His grace we have the mercy of His forgiveness... but I think the problem isn't that people treat God flippantly; I think many people just don't know Him, and therefore don't know how to treat Him. *shrug*

I tottally agree with you except on the last part God makes sure everyone know about him in some way. Every normal person and especially Christians know that they should respect God.

[bookworm]

I find it amusing that each of us read the article and thought of entirely different points regarding it.

That’s not amusing, that’s a poorly written article. >_>

I don't think that the author was condemning the friendship in our relations with Him, I think he was condemning our trying to pull Jesus down to our level, or using our relationship to brush off God's authority.

I agree that’s most likely what the author was wanting to say. But with statements like this:

There is a familiarity towards God today which regards Him as something of a “buddy” on the same level as ourselves. He is sometimes addressed so casually that one would think He was no more important than the man next door.

that’s not the message that is conveyed.
As I said, reverence for God is a must. But that doesn’t mean you can’t be casual with Him. They are (the way I read it) attempting to say that the two are mutually exclusive. You’re either casual or reverent, you can’t be both. But in reality, yes you can. Casual and flippant are not the same thing. God is absolutely not on our level, we must always keep that in perspective. But He does want us to be close to Him and become His personal friend, and even more than that one of His children. How does a child act toward their father? Are they stiff and formal? No! They are the epitome of familiarity and casualness. Not because they lack respect, because the relationship is so strong. How much more should it be for our Heavenly Father? Infinitely more.

[Tea Ess]

That’s not amusing, that’s a poorly written article.

Sorry if that wasn't clear, but I was not speaking of the article itself, I was commenting on the thoughts we derived from the article, based on our differing personalities and outlooks.

I agree that’s most likely what the author was wanting to say. But with statements like this:

There is a familiarity towards God today which regards Him as something of a “buddy” on the same level as ourselves. He is sometimes addressed so casually that one would think He was no more important than the man next door.

that’s not the message that is conveyed.

I would agree that the author didn't convey his message as it was probably intended.

As I said, reverence for God is a must. But that doesn’t mean you can’t be casual with Him. They are (the way I read it) attempting to say that the two are mutually exclusive. You’re either casual or reverent, you can’t be both. But in reality, yes you can. Casual and flippant are not the same thing. God is absolutely not on our level, we must always keep that in perspective. But He does want us to be close to Him and become His personal friend, and even more than that one of His children. How does a child act toward their father? Are they stiff and formal? No! They are the epitome of familiarity and casualness. Not because they lack respect, because the relationship is so strong. How much more should it be for our Heavenly Father? Infinitely more.

I would also agree with everything you said here. The author's intent was probably to condemn flippancy, but he didn't address the contrasts between casual and flippant as he should have. As a guess, I would say that he meant to focus on the problem of being constantly casual, resulting in flippancy, and those who are both casual and reverent.

[bookworm]

Sorry if that wasn't clear, but I was not speaking of the article itself, I was commenting on the thoughts we derived from the article, based on our differing personalities and outlooks.

No, you were clear. I agree that we’re all having different takes on it. What I meant was because we’re doing that, it was a poorly written article. This isn’t something everyone is supposed to have their own take on, it’s something written by the author with the intent of making a particular point to people, and obviously it isn’t doing that.

I would also agree with everything you said here. The author's intent was probably to condemn flippancy, but he didn't address the contrasts between casual and flippant as he should have.

I agree with you as well. If the point as you presented it is indeed what the author was trying to say, then I concur. But if the message was what I interpreted it to be, then I don’t. Because it isn’t written as clearly as it should have been we don’t know which it is, so I just had to make the distinction.

[Termite]

We have respect, awe, and reverence for our Father, but we do not have to fear Him as the demons do. I do not fear my God. He loves me, He saved me, and I've been washed by His blood. I have no fear of Him... for we are told to 'come boldly before the throne' (Hebrews 4:16). Fear and boldness do not mix; therefore, we can not both fear God and come boldly before the throne. Why would He tell us to come boldly and expect us to fear Him in the sense of being scared? We can't be bold if we are terrified to face Him. But the truth is that He wants us to come. He wants us to trust Him and love Him; not because we're driven by fear if we don't, but because we want to.

It is true that grace is no excuse for sin, and because of His grace we have the mercy of His forgiveness... but I think the problem isn't that people treat God flippantly; I think many people just don't know Him, and therefore don't know how to treat Him. *shrug*

I tottally agree with you except on the last part God makes sure everyone know about him in some way. Every normal person and especially Christians know that they should respect God.

Christians, yes. Other people? Not necessarily... all the Bible says is that the Heavens declare the glory of God. It doesn't say people are going to look, know there's a God, and assume He's good and worthy of respect. It says there's no excuse for them not knowing His divine nature; but how do you treat a divine Being if you don't know how personal of a God He is? Or that He cares? You won't if you've 'learned' that all He does is laugh and create wars and kill people.

Other people just honestly don't ever think about it or realize it. 2 Corinthians 4:4 says the god of this world has blinded the eyes of unbelievers. So many people just don't know God at all, because the Christian siting next to them on the bus is ignoring the prompting of the Spirit to speak to them about Him. The Great Commission says we are to 'go and make disciples'. Not just tell people about God and get them saved, but train them in the ways of Christ. Christianity is becoming so diluted and twisted that even if people DO seek out after God, who knows what they will find? But just pointing fingers and telling people they should know all about God and respect Him won't help. Why respect a God who made everything and sits on a throne laughing? If that's the way they've been raised, or the 'knowledge' they've researched, then it takes another to help them out of it.

Perhaps I'm more rambling, and maybe I'm wrong. But Christians just can't point out all the issues people have; they need to go and do something about it. There's a lot more to it than just 'well, look at creation and realize there's a God Who deserves respect'. *shrug*