God's wrath??

[Jesus' Princess]

Recently I've become aware of several people really close to our family who feel that parents who have a child with birth defects, special needs, abnormalities or whatever, are being punished by God because he is angry at them. I'd honestly never even thought of thinking like that before, but over the past few months have realized that maybe that's not the widely accepted school of thought.

Do you think that parents of children with birth defects and/or genetic abnormalities are being punished? I'm curious to see responses here...

[John Chrysostom]

That is not a widely accepted belief, thank God, that is a very hurtful and negative thing to say. Now my guess is that these people are using a phrase found in Exodus 34:7 about God visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children but to construct a doctrine of a few verses is problematic. Especially given that in Deuteronomy 24:16 it says "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin." and in Ezekiel 18:20 "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

By no means do children born with defects, special needs, or abnormalities mean that God is punishing their parents.

[Christian A.]

Jesus' disciples ask basically this same question of Jesus in John 9--whether the fact that a man was born blind is because of his own sin or the sin of his parents. Jesus said it was the fault of neither, but that it was so that God would be glorified that this man was born blind.

I don't understand why fellow Christians would try to act like they know the mind of God and say that they know why He did this or that. We may never know His exact reasoning, but we do know that everything He does He does to glorify Himself. And I tend to think that parents of special needs kids are not being punished, but rather blessed, seeing as they have the privilege of raising and loving someone who needs so much more extra love. There's a family in our church who just had a girl who has Downe's Syndrome. They were offered the option of aborting the child, but they kept it without thinking twice. There's no doubt that this girl will be one of the most adored and cared for little girls in the church.

There is nowhere in the Bible that would lead us to believe that special needs kids are a curse or a punishment to their parents.

[bookworm]

Jesus' disciples ask basically this same question of Jesus in John 9--whether the fact that a man was born blind is because of his own sin or the sin of his parents. Jesus said it was the fault of neither, but that it was so that God would be glorified that this man was born blind.

Exactly what I was going to say. Jesus shot the idea down, seems pretty clear that’s not the case then.

[Samantha14]

I don't think this really is the case in the least.. And I find it sad when others believe this so.

Really, I guess what I want to do is go back to tests and trials. We might go through said "loss" by children being afflicted by disease and such... However, it's the losses in our lives that God turns into the greatest victories and triumphs ever. Perhaps one could take this as a test of faith. It's not who we are, or how we look that makes us who we are.. Rather, it's how we act and REact to life and it's constants that really show us who we are, not only as people, but where exactly we stand in our faith. I mean, it's like the Jason Crabb song says:

He never promised that the cross would not get heavy, or the hill would not be hard to climb. He never offered our victories without fight, but He said help would always come in time. Just remember when you're standing, in the valley of decision, and the adversary says give in, Just hold on! Our Lord will show up! And He will take you through the fire again.

He never said there wouldn't be things that affect us, or things that hurt our lives, just like everyone in the world. But, as believers, we have the advantage of this little thing called "Hope for the future". By faith. Even if things aren't alright at the time, there's always the hope that no matter what, God loves us and knows what's best for us. He'll do what's best, either way...

Romans 8:28 King James Version (KJV) 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Even if that said thing lead to death... As hard as that is to accept, sometimes moving on is best for that person. I don't see it as wrath in the least, but God showing His love to us, and showing us that even though death and darkness may look like it has won, He has triumphed OVER it, and for those who believe, hope and everlasting life is on the other side. Everlasting life, everlasting love.

So, really, the question is... Are you going to be willing to follow Him and remember His love no matter what? Or are you going to drop out as soon as your first hard task comes along? Jesus did warn that being a believer would require work. But, isn't that what faith is all about...?

Perhaps this is just me, I'm not sure...

[Sherlock]

The way the whole conclusion is framed is problematic and misinformed, because the whole premise is wrong. It presupposes that that a child with birth defects is inherently a negative outcome that one is either burdened with if they are sinful or not burdened with if they are just.

Yes, such a child is probably more challenging to raise, but I have had the opportunity to meet several parents who welcome that unexpected challenge and believe that is has actually strengthened their faith as well as cause them to mature in character through lessons of generosity, selflessness and love. In this case, the child was never viewed as a negative burden, but an opportunity to give and receive love in a unique way.

The whole argument is similar to the belief in the prosperity Gospel, a presupposition that wealth is always good and that if you are a good person you will become rich, but if you sin, good will punish you with poverty. One need only examine the lives of many wealthy (and poor) people to quickly realize how incorrect that conclusion is.

[Josef1004]

I'm not going to say anything dogmatically, but I will say that soon after down's syndrome children started being killed off through abortion, the problem of autism cropped up. And that's something that we're not even close to understanding.

[John Chrysostom]

Really? Do you have a source for that?

[Josef1004]

That was noticed by a friend of mine who is a teacher in the public school system. Isn't it neat how God can punish a society who think they can eliminate the "inferior" or "unfit", yet at the same time give untold joy to those who accept their special needs children as the gifts of God that they are?

[John Chrysostom]

No, that is not neat at all. That is a horrible, sick, twisted way to think about that, I am literally sickened by your last post. Also how can these children be a punishment if they're a gift from God? Also are you suggesting that God will inflict mental illness on children to punish people?

[Josef1004]

By being a punishment to one mindset and a gift to another. There is that distinct possibility.

[John Chrysostom]

Forget not saying anything dogmatically and just don't say anything about this period. I hope you never ever say anything remotely like this to a parent of children with special needs.

I mean what sick twisted thing would you say? "I'm so glad that you're getting joy from your cursed child from God. Oh what do I mean by cursed? I mean God struck your child with a curse because of the sins of others, so because someone you don't know had an abortion God randomly picked your child and cursed them. But hey at least we aren't all dead from a meteor hitting us because of the gays."

[Jesus' Princess]

That was noticed by a friend of mine who is a teacher in the public school system. Isn't it neat how God can punish a society who think they can eliminate the "inferior" or "unfit", yet at the same time give untold joy to those who accept their special needs children as the gifts of God that they are?

Could you clarify what you mean please? I'm trying not to jump to conclusions...

[Josef1004]

I mean even in God's judgement, you can often see His mercy.

[Jesus' Princess]

I mean even in God's judgement, you can often see His mercy.

So you're saying that special needs kids are God's judgment?

[Josef1004]

No-- I'm saying that if they are, you can still see his mercy.

[John Chrysostom]

No, you have clearly stated that special need children are a judgement from God. Either own up to your twisted view or denounce it for the sick statement that it was.

[bold4god]

I know so many special needs kids, and not once have I ever thought they were a punishment from God. How can something be a punishment when it teaches you so much, about how to love, and how to live a cheerful life in the midst of hard times?

Lets take my friend Conner* for example, he was born with Cerebral Palsy (CP) (a condition that affects different parts of the brain, and affects different people in different ways). His CP affects the right side of his body, I guess it kinda paralyzes his right arm, he can't do much with it. It also makes all the muscles in his legs contract, which means it was getting harder and harder for him to walk. I have known him his whole life (I'm a few years older than him) and I have thought how unfair it was that he could not walk and run the same as everyone, but he has never acted unhappy about it, and is one of the most cheerful people I know. He had a major surgery last may to correct his legs, and even when he was in pain, he stayed cheerful. He has gone through so much, and stays strong. I think he has been an example to everyone who knows him.

A second example is another friend of mine, Garrett* He has CP and a large case of Autism. His CP affects him far differently than Conner's though. Though he is 17, he acts like he is a young kid, that is due to the CP I think, though Autism may play a part in it. That could be taken as a bad thing, but not when you know him, He is the best example of love I have ever seen, he loves EVERYONE whether they want the love or not. He is also great at giving compliments such as "you are so beautiful... as a tousin" (to his cousin... yes I am showing you his speech impediment, but not to make fun of him, it makes him the special, and awesome person he is). Unfortunately I can't remember any specific compliments he has given me, but they always touch my heart and put a smile on my face, even when I get a bit of drool on my hands (at which point I excuse myself politely to the bathroom and scrub my hands)! He is great at showing love, which is honestly something I need to get better at.

* Names have been changed, cause I don't know if the parents want that type of stuff on the internet.

Okay last example, my brother, He has Asperger's syndrome which is also know as high functioning autism. that basically means that some things he is really good at, way better than any average person, and some things he is far below the average person. The 2 things all autistic kids have in common are 1. They all have one thing that they are obsessed with, something that they are extremely passionate about. For my brother that is medieval weaponry. 2. they are not good at assessing social situations, which means sometimes they overreact when they get called names, or sometimes even if some one looks at them wrong. Oh another thing they have is melt downs. My brother is awesome, I never really thought you could look up to a younger brother but I certainly can. He has taught me so much, sometimes it is just something simple, like some trivial fact (trivial to me that is...) about a claymore or something, but other times he teaches me stuff about God, life, and love. He is super smart, there is so much going on in his brain, that I could never survive in there! One struggle he has however is getting all those smarts out on paper. If tests and essays were the only way we had to find out what what in his brain we would think he was absolutely dumb, he has a hard time writing and typing, but if you were to write down every thing he said, you would find out he is really smart.

Now I am not saying the parents of these kids do not struggle, because believe me they do, but I think the good parts, the good example and everything they have taught us as their family and friends outweighs the struggles.

Sorry if this really long message was out of place or off topic, but after reading some of the comments I just could not keep my feelings inside. Sorry if I offend anyone, I really have no intentions of doing so!

[John Chrysostom]

You didn't offend anyone, that was a moving post that shows what a blessing these individuals can be to us. And I totally agree, they aren't a punishment from God.

[bold4god]

Thanks for the encouragement... I was really nervous hitting the submit button for fear it would start some kind of argument or something!