Trumping Bible Verses

[Jehoshaphat]

Does having more bible verses to back up your opinion make you right? Like in the case of works vs faith this person throws out this verse and this other person throws out three more verses, does the person with the more verses win the argument?

[jasonjannajerryjohn]

Awww, you're learning that the Bible is extremely contradictory. Good for you. When the Muslims learned that about the Qur'an, they came up with a system whereby the verses that were written later override the verses that were written earlier. Neat little system, I thought. Of course, it makes the "KILL ALL THE NON-BELIEVERS" verses override the "Everyone is one under God" and "Religion should not be an act of compulsion" verses. So that could be a bit of a problem. Though for the Bible, if you did that, you'd have the opposite. The NT is significantly less violent than the OT. It's still got problems, but it's not nearly as bad.

[Whitty Whit]

Awww, you're learning that the Bible is extremely contradictory. Good for you. When the Muslims learned that about the Qur'an, they came up with a system whereby the verses that were written later override the verses that were written earlier. Neat little system, I thought. Of course, it makes the "KILL ALL THE NON-BELIEVERS" verses override the "Everyone is one under God" and "Religion should not be an act of compulsion" verses. So that could be a bit of a problem. Though for the Bible, if you did that, you'd have the opposite. The NT is significantly less violent than the OT. It's still got problems, but it's not nearly as bad.

Alert: I say the first paragraph without trying to be all "in the face" if you will, and desire to make a point. Take what I say with a proverbial grain of salt.

Hm. Simply because you believe the Bible is contradictory, doesn't mean that others do. exempli gratia, you say it is contradictory, whereas I do not. Now with the mindset of tolerance and love, you are not being very loving and tolerant of Christians.

Multiple times I wonder why people make these threads.. They probably do it to make a fool out of myself for repeatedly getting into debates of which I don't like to have. But, being a Christian, and believing that "God's name" (id est, the 'what i believe to be infallible' Word of 'my' God) is being seemingly "tramped" upon, I believe I have some obligation to start a debate in defense of God's Word.

How is it contradictory? Even if you have to repeat yourself, please give examples in this thread. I don't believe it to be contradictory, and would like to prove my belief.

I'm gonna regret this.

[jasonjannajerryjohn]

I'm gonna regret this.

Heh.

How is it contradictory? Even if you have to repeat yourself, please give examples in this thread. I don't believe it to be contradictory, and would like to prove my belief.

Here are just a few of the contradictions oh so prevalent in the Bible. Really, you should just get a system like Muslims where the later verses override the earlier. Would be so much easier. >_>

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... tions.html

http://ffrf.org/legacy/books/lfif/?t=contra

I mean, Mr. OP here has realized that there are many verses that contradict each other. Different sides can come in with different Bible verses and his question is does the number of Bible verses you have count as the debate.

[Josef1004]

Does having more bible verses to back up your opinion make you right? Like in the case of works vs faith this person throws out this verse and this other person throws out three more verses, does the person with the more verses win the argument?

Did you know that the verse numbers were never given by God? Man added them later for convenience sake. But, like many things done for convenience sake, they sometimes can detract from God's original intent. To perceive the true counsel of God, you must seek the whole counsel of God--that means looking at each book as a whole and ultimately the entire Bible as a whole, as the books of the Bible are the only divinely inspired "divisions" of the Bible. (Except for the book of Psalms, where each chapter is a complete Psalm.)

So, to answer the question: No, it doesn't make you you right if you have more verses backing up your opinion. But do you really have to be right in order to win an argument?

[jasonjannajerryjohn]

Except that the Bible doesn't really make sense if it was written or even "inspired" by an all-knowing, all-powerful deity. There are far too many contradictions. An all-knowing God wouldn't make contradictions at all. Since, you know, he knows everything.

It does make sense, however, if it was written by various people in various times and from various cultures with conflicting views.

[Whitty Whit]

1. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... empty_tomb

God used different people to write different portions of the Bible. Matthew said that these people came, Mark said that these people came, John said Mary came. That's not a contradiction. It's like me telling 3 different people, differing pieces of info. I tell Shen: Catspaw made the forum. I tell AE: I made the forum. I tell Monty: Catspaw and JP made the forum. If all the people I said had made the forum actually had made the forum, then I would be totally correct in each of those statements to different people.

2. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... html#moses

What? people can't change?

3. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... #righteous

What? People can't prosper and then die?

4. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... last_words

What? People can't say multiple things? (refer back to the first case for multiple people telling little bits of a story to make up one truth)

5. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... tml#tempts

What? God can't prove or test people to see if they're faithful?

I trust you can read all of those passages and come to a conclusion that they aren't contradictions, just misconceptions about verses either taken out of context or some people just don't understand at all.

I don't feel like going through the second website because a big portion of all the "contradictions" in the first site had the same "problem".

[Christian A.]

Oh my gosh. Some of these are just ridiculous. The harmonization between some of them is so easy that nothing even needs to be said. Some can be solved very simply by switching to a more modern translation that won't give us problems because of the Old English. But, I will hand it to you, JJJJ, some of them are more difficult, and they would require a good deal of digging to figure out how they can be reconciled. But, we come to the Bible with the presupposition that it was written by an omniscient, perfect God and that every word He inspired in the original autographs was exactly as He wanted it and was absolutely true. Therefore, any apparent contradictions must have a solution. They do not need to be discarded.

[jasonjannajerryjohn]

You're right. Some of them are obvious that they're not as big of contradictions. However a good majority are very contradictory. WW, you picked the ones that were easy to reconcile.

But therein lies your problem CA. Heh. CA. That's just an assumption. There's no basis for that assumption. It's a groundless claim. If I made a groundless claim like that, everyone would jump on me. ;D

[jelly]

jjjj loves nothing more than to patronize those with lesser intellect.

[Whitty Whit]

But therein lies your problem CA. Heh. CA. That's just an assumption. There's no basis for that assumption. It's a groundless claim. If I made a groundless claim like that, everyone would jump on me. ;D

lol, I saw CA's signature and thought it was JCGJ who posted, and I was confused about who you were talking to. Goes to show I don't really see who posts?

You're right. Some of them are obvious that they're not as big of contradictions. However a good majority are very contradictory. WW, you picked the ones that were easy to reconcile.

How about you pick one for me to work on? How was I supposed to know you did/didn't believe those were "valid" contradictions.

[jasonjannajerryjohn]

jjjj loves nothing more than to patronize those with lesser intellect.

Jerryfish believes you all have lesser intellect. Apparently. I said nothing of the sort. >_>

[Josef1004]

Oh my gosh. Some of these are just ridiculous. The harmonization between some of them is so easy that nothing even needs to be said. Some can be solved very simply by switching to a more modern translation that won't give us problems because of the Old English. But, I will hand it to you, JJJJ, some of them are more difficult, and they would require a good deal of digging to figure out how they can be reconciled. But, we come to the Bible with the presupposition that it was written by an omniscient, perfect God and that every word He inspired in the original autographs was exactly as He wanted it and was absolutely true. Therefore, any apparent contradictions must have a solution. They do not need to be discarded.

Good observations there. But don't be content knowing that they must have a solution--look until you find the solution. Because in finding those solutions, you delve deeper into the very mind of God, and as you do, you become more like your Lord Jesus. I don't even pay any attention to people like JJJJ there who gets a kick out of pasting loads of nonsense up. If it's not worth his time to actually type out something specific, it's not worth my time to reply. There are already published volumes of responses to alleged contradictions in the Bible, to which people who have honest questions may refer.

[Whitty Whit]

But, I will hand it to you, JJJJ, some of them are more difficult, and they would require a good deal of digging to figure out how they can be reconciled.

If it's not worth his time to actually type out something specific, it's not worth my time to reply.

These.

How come I'm never eloquent enough to say this stuff.

[jasonjannajerryjohn]

Oh my gosh. Some of these are just ridiculous. The harmonization between some of them is so easy that nothing even needs to be said. Some can be solved very simply by switching to a more modern translation that won't give us problems because of the Old English. But, I will hand it to you, JJJJ, some of them are more difficult, and they would require a good deal of digging to figure out how they can be reconciled. But, we come to the Bible with the presupposition that it was written by an omniscient, perfect God and that every word He inspired in the original autographs was exactly as He wanted it and was absolutely true. Therefore, any apparent contradictions must have a solution. They do not need to be discarded.

Good observations there. But don't be content knowing that they must have a solution--look until you find the solution. Because in finding those solutions, you delve deeper into the very mind of God, and as you do, you become more like your Lord Jesus. I don't even pay any attention to people like JJJJ there who gets a kick out of pasting loads of nonsense up. If it's not worth his time to actually type out something specific, it's not worth my time to reply. There are already published volumes of responses to alleged contradictions in the Bible, to which people who have honest questions may refer.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but strawmen will never hurt me.

[Josef1004]

They could if one of them catches on fire when you're standing too close to it.

[SoccerLOTR]

They could if they catch on fire then tackle you! :-P In other news...I think everyone has gotten off topic. And I do like Josef's question of "Do you really have to be right in order to win an argument?" Good statement...

[bookworm]

"Do you really have to be right in order to win an argument?"

You do not, you only have to have the more solidly founded side.

[Tea Ess]

How exactly would you pick what is right? That is typically what the debate is about.

[bookworm]

Well first, we said argument not debate. But this still stands for that too.
In my critical thinking class we went over how to properly form your arguments, and the main criteria is that they have to be solidly based. You need to support them. If you can do that they are valid, even if they are incorrect.
To answer your question, debating is not always about picking who is correct, only who has the more solid side.