I think too much...

[John Chrysostom]

Could you expand on how bad genes are caused by sin?

[jasonjannajerryjohn]

Because anything that hurts the human race is a result of sin. Obviously. Isn't that what Answers in Genesis thinks about everything?

[Samantha14]

Could you expand on how bad genes are caused by sin?

Actually, that makes sense, in a way. If God made man originally perfect, being in his image, there couldn't have been any bad, right? I mean, God is perfect. Thoroughly and completely good. There is no bad to Him. So once Adam and Eve sinned, there was then "bad" to them. Eventually linking to sin being transferee genetically, if that is indeed the case.

One thing that still gets me, however, is where did the very first original sin come from? I mean, if God is perfect, and He made everything; Including the heavens. Including the angels. INCLUDING Lucifer. Where and how did the original evil come to be? I mean, before, He was an always-existent being. But there were no angels, no heaven, no hell, no earth, no... Nothing. Then God creates everything, including Lucifer. Then Lucifer gets a big head and declares himself better than God in pride and darkness. Big question: Where did that pride and darkness come from? Did God also make the "darkness"?

So many questions...>.<

[John Chrysostom]

God did not create sin. But God did give us free will, we used that free will for evil.

[Christian A.]

I actually agree with John here. God created angels and humans with the same mutable nature. He created us with the ability to choose between evil and good. The place I would disagree with him though is the consequences of that decision. When Lucifer chose evil (and, it is believed, a third of the angels chose with him), he sealed his destiny as an evil creature forever; he could no longer do good. In the same way, I believe, when humans chose evil, they threw the whole human race out with them; they could never again do good unless God were to intervene.

But, bottom line: God did not create evil; He created creatures that were good, but that had the ability to do evil.

[John Chrysostom]

But, bottom line: God did not create evil; He created creatures that were good, but that had the ability to do evil.

Hmm, let me ask you this; did God predestine that Adam & Eve would fall?

[Blitz]

In some way you can say Lucifer created sin. He was the first to sin and he was the one who brought it to Earth. Also God gave us free will which is the thing that separates man from the rest. Imagination comes from free will. You can imagine anything. Thus sin can come through it. And I doubt God made more people after Adam and Eve. Before people could intermarry and even after the law cousins could marry. But now it is unhealthy to marry. Did you know that a royal family in Egypt could only marry a brother or sister. It is more likely with all the bad DNA in us that more physical defects will come out in us the closer in our family we marry.

[Christian A.]

But, bottom line: God did not create evil; He created creatures that were good, but that had the ability to do evil.

Hmm, let me ask you this; did God predestine that Adam & Eve would fall?

I knew you wouldn't let that go.

In a way He did. But I know where you're going with this so I'll say that I am trying to reform my definition of predestination. I heard someone at my church say recently--and I decided that I agree--that the notion of God predestining every single action that ever occurs and humans being robots who have no real influence on anything is very pagan in origin, and it's not something John Calvin taught, nor should it be taught by modern Reformed Baptists. So, I'm trying to figure out in my head how it works then. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the idea of natures. God gave humans and angels mutable natures in the beginning, thus giving them the choice between good and evil. Ever since then, humans can only choose evil unless God changes their natures, in order that they can have the choice to do good again.

So... somehow God knows everything, and He orchestrates everything in the universe for His glory as sovereign Creator, but that doesn't negate the will of the creature. I don't know that I'll ever figure out how exactly it works. But I have changed a little bit from what I used to say about the issue.

[Termite]

All it is it this: Foreknowledge is NOT predestination.

God is out of time. Therefore, He knows everything that has happened/is happening/will happen. That's why in Revelation 18 Jesus is referred to as 'the Lamb slain before the foundation of the earth'. Get this, guys: before God created Adam and Eve He knew they would sin. That's where the plan of redemption becomes so beautiful. God so wanted us to be with Him that He created us, knowing full well that we would fall, but He already had the plan in place to forgive us and make a way back to Him. It wasn't His choice for us to fall away in the first place.

Yes, He knew they would fall. No, He did not ordain it. Yes, He knows whom I will eventually marry, but no, that man is not "THE ONE" whom God ordained before time and if I don't marry him life as we know it will be over. God just knows because He knows all things. It's somewhat difficult to wrap the mind around, but. *shrug*

Where and how did the original evil come to be? I mean, before, He was an always-existent being. But there were no angels, no heaven, no hell, no earth, no... Nothing. Then God creates everything, including Lucifer. Then Lucifer gets a big head and declares himself better than God in pride and darkness. Big question: Where did that pride and darkness come from? Did God also make the "darkness"?

Well, there's one thing I've heard preached. Makes as good sense as anything else, so let's see if I can repeat it well enough.

*ahem* Depending on hoe you view Ezekiel 28, as to whether or not you believe Satan is the one to whom the passage is referring, then that'll go off this a bit. Anyway. For argument's sake let's just say that it is Satan. Capiche?

So then. According to Ezekiel 28:12-15, it sorta sounds like Satan would have been the top dog beneath the Trinity based on everything given to him. First thing to note aside from that is that down in verse 17, it says 'you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor'. Also, verse 16, 'you became filled with violence within, and you sinned'. His choice to sin; his choice alone. Now then, going back over to Isaiah 14:13-14, it talks about Satan's rebellion beginning inside him. He wasn't going around telling all the angels about how he was going to kick God's butt. Of course, perhaps one third of the angels did eventually fall (Rev. 12:4, if you will), so whenever that was though I have no clue. Still, Satan made the choice to rebel, taking along some angels, all because of something. Again, it was his choice, but whatever brought around that choice to begin with?

Let's go aaaaaall the way back to the beginning of the Bible, Genesis 3:1-6.

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Again at verse 6:

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

One of the most important things we as Christians have to watch is our eye gate. Obviously sin can start without us seeing anything, but what happens when a recovering porn addict sees a Victoria's Secret add? Stretch of an example, but bear with me. There's a reason Jesus said, when speaking about sin, that if our 'eye causes you to sin, pluck it out'.(Mark 9:47) Of course, no one actually does that, but I feel there was a point to Him using that particular body part. It can cause biiiig problems, because what you see fuels the imagination.

I said all that to say this: Satan looked around him, saw what he didn't have but God did, and decided he wanted it. Lust of the eyes. He had nearly everything imaginable, yet he still wanted more. Pride of life. He took what he saw and because of that he chose to sin.

*shrug* Hopefully that makes sense. I'm not here to really discuss it so much; I can't, anyway. On vacation with family, it's just a slow day today. We'll see if I can get back on during the next few days for any length of time.

[Christian A.]

All it is it this: Foreknowledge is NOT predestination.

God is out of time. Therefore, He knows everything that has happened/is happening/will happen. That's why in Revelation 18 Jesus is referred to as 'the Lamb slain before the foundation of the earth'. Get this, guys: before God created Adam and Eve He knew they would sin. That's where the plan of redemption becomes so beautiful. God so wanted us to be with Him that He created us, knowing full well that we would fall, but He already had the plan in place to forgive us and make a way back to Him. It wasn't His choice for us to fall away in the first place.

Yes, He knew they would fall. No, He did not ordain it. Yes, He knows whom I will eventually marry, but no, that man is not "THE ONE" whom God ordained before time and if I don't marry him life as we know it will be over. God just knows because He knows all things. It's somewhat difficult to wrap the mind around, but. *shrug*

I would totally believe that...if it weren't for these Bible verses.

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There are so many verses that just don't fit with the straight foreknowledge view. In some of those verses, in fact, people are held accountable for carrying out actions that God predestined them to do! That's why it still remains a mystery to me.

[Samantha14]

God did not create sin. But God did give us free will, we used that free will for evil.

Yesssssss. But where did the evil come from? Are we saying that God always was, and so was evil? Was it just locked away somewhere in nothingness? I mean, God even created hell, a prison for Lucifer and one third of his dark angel followers, to whom we now call demons. Then it says eventually, after forever, God made the world. And the heavens. And, well, everything. The angels, the beasts, the elders, the saints, nothing that is in heaven now, or was created then, was there then. He was an all-being all-knowing God who was just... There. I do not doubt this at all. I mean, God is so beyond understanding, that it makes sense not to know how or why He was where and how He was before everything became. But it still doesn't make sense. If there was nothing in eternity before God created it all, how did evil become that God could give us the choice to choose it over Him?

In some way you can say Lucifer created sin. He was the first to sin and he was the one who brought it to Earth. Also God gave us free will which is the thing that separates man from the rest. Imagination comes from free will. You can imagine anything. Thus sin can come through it.

What caused him to sin, though? God gave us free will, sure. But if there was no evil at the time, how did they have anything to choose? As I just said, if God was before anything was, including Lucifer/Satan/The Devil... Whatever you want to call him, then how did evil enter? How did it become? Was it always there? But, wouldn't that mean God wasn't alone, unlike what the Bible says? Or, maybe the darkness that was before God created everything was evil waiting for form? But, God made everything perfectly. He made Adam and Eve "perfect", but then they "sinned" and caused them to lose their "perfectness". Then in the fall, everything "fell" or "turned dark". Even the plants and animals were effected, and they couldn't "sin". So, how did that happen? I'm so very lost right now.

HELP! I'M LOST IN THE DARK VORTEX KNOWN AS MY MIND!

[Christian A.]

I think, somehow, you're creating a paradox that isn't necessary. Evil entered creation when Lucifer used his free will to rebel against God. Simple as that. It didn't need to exist beforehand. Evil is the absence of good. When Lucifer chose not to do good, he necessarily committed an evil. Evil didn't need to exist before that point.

[bookworm]

I mean, God even created hell, a prison for Lucifer and one third of his dark angel followers, to whom we now call demons.

Hell isn’t necessarily a place, it’s a condition. The condition of being cut off from God. God doesn’t create that, those who turn away from Him choose it.

[Blitz]

And Lucifer did the only sin available. Want to be like God. Which can be done at any time.