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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:49 pm 
darcietastical
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We actually gave up our car and borrow one when we need to make longer trips or take all 5 of us somewhere. In town, we bike. Including for groceries. I have a bike trailer. \:D/

Most of our lights have been converted to more energy efficient ones. I have the A/C up to like 82 this summer, so we haven't used it much.

We mostly eat locally grown foods, and grow some of our own. The ultimate goal is to switch our front lawn into a vegetable garden. Our current landscaping has irrigation on a timer, and set to run only as much as needed. I turned them off all winter.


Little changes everyone can make add up to a big difference. :D

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:52 pm 
I love the Town Council!
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I suppose you could say that my family does "green" things, but largely because the results are economic/financial/all-around-good-sense-and-the-results-are-usually-better-for-you-anyway. I'm not sure what category that would put me in. :?

What I mean by that overlaps a lot with what Darcie said: heating the house less in the winter and letting it stay warmer in the summer, turning off the lights when they are not in use, mowing and maintaining our lawn in such a way that it typically doesn't need any watering, growing more native plants that need less water and care than other options, growing herbs and vegetables in our yard, ect.

I also agree with being good stewards of creation.

I biked to work this entire summer, but mainly because it was my only transportation option, because I can't get my license yet (in this state, at least). :p

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:44 pm 
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This topic came up at dinner tonight actually :)

I don't think anyone is agains recycling, or conserving water or energy or anything. The problem starts when we elevate "Mother Nature" over people, and start doing things like shutting the logging industry down, or restricting land use in order to save the environment. We're here to have dominion over nature, and to be good stewards of what we've been given, and being a good steward would be recycling, conserving water, etc...

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:17 am 
The Council isn't corrupt
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What is wrong with restricting land use? Do we really need strip mine land? Or go coal mining by blowing the top off mountains, like is happening in West Virginia?


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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:21 pm 
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I'm an adamant advocate of free-market capitalism. Government involvement in business is like a Laffer curve; a little bit is necessary, but the more it takes over, the more it suffocates. I approve of businesses who market the fact that they are energy efficient or give back to the environment.

However, I'm obsessed with conservation of resources. We're polluting our water, harming the land and making the future more difficult for future generations. I have no doubt, though, that people will evolve to deal with the problems that arise. We adapt. There is nothing to fear because God knows the future and people will find ways to carry on.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:26 pm 
darcietastical
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But how do we reconcile caring for the environment in a free-market model? How do we set expectations for corporations without setting government policy? Clearly supporting businesses that are energy efficient and share our values is one step, but capitalism values profit above the environment. If people vote with their dollars for a lower cost product that comes from a less resource-respectful company, they're the ones that succeed. I think to be good stewards, we have to set limitations as to what people and companies can and cannot do with the resources we've been given.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:35 pm 
The Council isn't corrupt

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darcie wrote:
We actually gave up our car and borrow one when we need to make longer trips or take all 5 of us somewhere. In town, we bike. Including for groceries. I have a bike trailer. \:D/

Most of our lights have been converted to more energy efficient ones. I have the A/C up to like 82 this summer, so we haven't used it much.

We mostly eat locally grown foods, and grow some of our own. The ultimate goal is to switch our front lawn into a vegetable garden. Our current landscaping has irrigation on a timer, and set to run only as much as needed. I turned them off all winter.


Little changes everyone can make add up to a big difference. :D
I think you just became my hero.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:48 pm 
darcietastical
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31899 wrote:
I think you just became my hero.

I'm actually not really pulling my weight around here by local standards. I don't have solar panels. Or a compost pile. And my "backyard" chickens are in someone else's backyard a couple miles away. :anxious:

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:00 pm 
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I think that the whole global warming thing is a hoax, I mean doesn't anyone remember that scandal with the scientists who were faking studies to "prove" global warming? I think we need to use the resources God gave us and that means not caring more about the environment than we care about other people. Which is exactly what I think the modern environmentalist movement does.

Also we as a country shouldn't handicap ourselves economically because we want the European liberals to think we're cool.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:17 pm 
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can I finally update my status, or...?

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The lie by one scientist doesn't disprove his theory, it discredits him as a scientist. ;) I have no opinion on the matter of global warming itself--to me, it just seems like one of those things, you know? It's a weather pattern, a cycle. It happens. My main thing is, we don't need to wait until there's a movement or a massive freakout over something to support taking care of the environment; we should be doing that all along.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:37 pm 
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This wasn't just one scientist, sorry I realized I said scientist in my post, but scientists from around the world who worked at the Climatic Research Unit conspired to manufacture data to prove global warming. The faulty findings of this group were used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change to "prove' global warming, they won a Noble Peace Prize for this in 2007. Also winning that prize was Al Gore who used the faulty findings in his movie.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:21 pm 
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Yeah...but that's Al Gore. ;) But fair enough.

I think there is some pretty solid concrete evidence out there for global warming, but I think a lot of it is really just, again, one of those cycles. It happens. Should the planet start cooling down a few years from now, the big deal will be global cooling. The whole goal, again, is to just be a good steward of the environment--not because you're some kind of insane hippie tree-hugger or whatever or even because of global warming activism, but just because it's the decent thing to do. I mean, looking at it from a Christian perspective, God does give man charge of the earth to tend to it--He didn't say, "Here, take my creation and junk it up as much as you want." It's not your "Christian duty" or whatever to take care of the earth in that sense of environmental activism, but it is something to keep in mind when you go into this kind of debate. //rehashing //because really it can't be overstated

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:35 pm 
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I've never seen any of this so called solid evidence. As for the whole cycle thing I agree, its not a big deal. Back in the 1970s scientists were worried about the coming Ice Age, the Times ran a cover in 1974 warning of the coming ice age. I agree that we are stewards of creation but I think there is a big overreaction today about environmentalism.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:49 pm 
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can I finally update my status, or...?

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Let me clarify: When I say evidence for global warming, I mean evidence for increased pollution and all that rot--it goes from litter to greenhouse gases. You see it every day (and probably more if you live in San Francisco ;) ). It's not even necessarily global warming, though there may be some proof of that, I don't know and I don't particularly care.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:07 am 
I guess I'll stick around
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I also believe this climate change is just a cycle that the earth goes through. I do my part in conservation but I'm not a nut job about it. I think the atheist liberals are trying to push conservation to a point of worshiping the Earth since they don't believe in God. One of my biggest pet peeves is littering. I will put something in my pocket before I throw it on the ground. I just cannot bring myself to do it. I was at a convenience store one time and watched a car pull into the parking lot throw a bunch of McDonald's trash out the window and leave. They were only about 50 ft away from a trash can. Disgusting.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:09 pm 
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can I finally update my status, or...?

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WindowWasher wrote:
I think the atheist liberals are trying to push conservation to a point of worshiping the Earth since they don't believe in God.


Or maybe they truly want to take care of the earth and they're just being excessive about it. Or maybe it's not the fault of atheist liberals or even atheists as a whole; maybe idol worship is a by-product of our sin nature and should not be blamed on any one group. (Because of course, a conservative Christian has never been prone to idol worship.)

I'm a conservative Christian, and I have liberal atheist friends who could give a rip less about the "going green" movement and for whom I have a great deal of respect. With that in mind, I consider it very rude to generalize people that way. To blame atheist liberals for this, and then to state that they behave a certain way as a direct and self-aware by-product of their lack of belief and not because they chose to think that way for themselves, is really insulting and unfair to people that we as Christians should reach out to and love instead of labeling and condescending to. After all, Christians are just as prone to the excessive environmentalist attitude; what's their excuse?

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:01 pm 
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Just relax. Don't get your knickers all in a bind. I get so tired of people getting offended at every little thing I say. Obviously not EVERY SINGLE atheist is like that but in conversations I've been a part of I get the impression that the earth is basically their god. It's tangible. They can touch and feel it unlike our God. By taking care of it, they feel like they are doing something good. It's MY OPINION and OBSERVATION. Get over it! I don't have to be sinless to notice how other people act. Good grief.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:00 pm 
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WindowWasher wrote:
Obviously not EVERY SINGLE atheist is like that but in conversations I've been a part of I get the impression that the earth is basically their god.

Yeah, my neighbors are atheists and they're always burning incense on their lawn and offering sacrifices to shrubs. I think I even caught them praying to the crab apple tree.


WindowWasher wrote:
It's MY OPINION and OBSERVATION. Get over it! I don't have to be sinless to notice how other people act. Good grief.

Aaaand the hypocrisy defense reflex rears its ugly head. ;)

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:42 pm 
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WindowWasher wrote:
By taking care of it, they feel like they are doing something good.


Your post stated that like it was because of their unbelief in God that they behave this way. If you had stated what you did just now, it wouldn't have been nearly as offensive as your insinuation that atheists behave in ways that always stem from their lack of belief in God, which is essentially what you say when you remark that they worship the earth because they don't believe in God.

Someone can worship an idol without being aware that they are defying God. In an atheist's mind, there isn't anything to defy and there isn't a point of comparison for subjects of worship. A Christian knows--or if they should know, and probably will be shown somewhere down the line--that what they are doing is contrary to God's will; an atheist doesn't believe that there is a God whose will they are defying, so why would they worship the earth as an active means of rebellion against a God in Whom they do not believe?

WindowWasher wrote:
Obviously not EVERY SINGLE atheist is like that


Then why did your post slap on labels? The phrase "atheist liberals do X" is inherently painting something with a broad brush, whether you know you didn't mean to label every member of the group of whom you speak or not. We cannot read your mind, and on the Internet, we can't read your body language or vocal tone. You need to tell us exactly what you mean if you want your points to be heard the way you mean them to be.

WindowWasher wrote:
It's MY OPINION and OBSERVATION. Get over it!


Wow. You're typing in all caps and using exclamation points, making it look like you're yelling at me, and you claim that I need to calm down and get over something?

I'm not trying to be rude. I'm really not. What I'm trying to do is express that what you said was offensive and quite frankly juvenile. And that instead of addressing what you and I both said and responding to me maturely--and even if you disagreed, a mature response is always appreciated--you told me to get over myself and used the "it's my opinion" response as a means to "refute" me. That is language meant to obscure and cloud judgment, not to communicate. It's essentially a kind of debate doublespeak to tell me that arguing a point I considered justifiably unsound was just me "getting my knickers in a twist".

WindowWasher wrote:
I don't have to be sinless to notice how other people act. Good grief.


I'm not telling you that you do. What I told you was that the way you expressed your observation was through an insulting, unfair generalization based on the way some people behave. I brought up Christians to say that it is not entirely a non-Christian thing. Your implication was "it's all the atheists' faults!", and my response to that was that Christians aren't perfect either.

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 Post Post subject: Re: Go green!
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:46 pm 
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If it costs money to recycle in my town, I don't. If it's "free/pre-paid by the city", I recycle. Does that count for something? green brownie points for me?

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