The Bible and Pagan Mythology

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Re: The Bible and Pagan Mythology

Postby Whitty Whit » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:07 pm

Margaret Thatcher wrote:I realize they're not real, I just wonder why Lewis felt the need to make them the good guys in his books then? Pagan gods are not real but Satan is and we learned how dangerous pagan gods can be from the nation of Israel. Why make light of them by turning them into good guys, even in fiction?


Nonreal things, by definition, cannot be dangerous. The reason Israel got intro trouble by worshipping these gods were because they weren't worshipping God. Just like today, we can have idols that we worship that detracts from our worship of God, committing the same sin that Israel was guilty of.

I'm sure > 90% of all books ever produced have condoned worship of things that are not God (not just false gods, but things that detract from worship of the one true God)...

so what now? I now point you to the book-burning faction.
Last edited by Whitty Whit on Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Bible and Pagan Mythology

Postby Mr. Sunnys » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:19 pm

[/quote]magic, violence, coarse language, sexual references, drug or alcohol use[/quote]

The OCARINA put people to sleep. Seriously, have you actually read the book? The introduction which mentions many times his Christianity?

Violence can be used in books without being wrong. The Bible has violence, so should we not read it?
CoN had no coarse language whatsoever. Again, have you actually read this book?
It had no sexual references. But the Bible did. Should we not read it?
CoN had no drug use. The Bible did, should we not read it?
Alcohol is not evil or wrong. Like with many things in life, it depends how you use it.

CoN is not wrong, or evil. So it used imaginary characters, there is nothing wrong with that.
The tree "spirits" as you said were not spirits. They were tree people. In the series, that is mentioned many times. The same with water PEOPLE.

I'm wondering if you saw the movie. Hollywood really strays from the path of the actual book.
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Re: The Bible and Pagan Mythology

Postby TigerintheShadows » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:35 pm

Margaret Thatcher wrote:So magic, violence, coarse language, sexual references, drug or alcohol use can be noble, right, good, lovely, and commendable in some circumstances? Because to me if they're present then whatever other messages might be there are corrupted. If those things aren't noble, right etc. then their presence means we shouldn't think on those stories.


So...if violence used by the good guys is bad, does this mean that Moses, Joshua, Caleb, David, and temple-cleansing!/Revelation!Jesus are bad, too, and we should never think on those stories because the good guys use violence?

If that sort of thing is going to prevent you from enjoying the creativity and work of another person that is overall communicating noble, right, good, lovely, and commendable truth, more power to you. But to most people, magic, violence, coarse language, sexual references, and drug/alcohol use does not distract or detract from the overall point of the work. They know it's wrong to use witchcraft (which, I state again, differs entirely from the magic in CoN and HP), be violent, use profanity, behave in a sexually immoral manner, and to abuse drugs and alcohol. There's a difference between not being bothered by something because you think it's okay and not being bothered by something because you know it's wrong and you wouldn't do it. People do exist who can actually look at a work as a whole and not cherrypick the less pleasant parts of it and only look at those things.

Margaret Thatcher wrote:So Lewis is infallible? He can never make mistakes?


Point well made. Intelligent and respectable though Lewis was as a theologian, he is a human being, and just because his name is on something doesn't automatically make it good.

Margaret Thatcher wrote:So God uses magic now? Also when a books says something is Deeper Magic it doesn't mean magic? That seems an odd way of phrasing it if he didn't mean magic, to use the actual word magic and mean something else.


Mmm...the thing about this, though, is the last sentence--Lewis meant a lot of "something elses" when he wrote the books. It's all allegorical. I agree with both of you--while it is true that the Deeper Magic is representative of divine, Godly power, the fact remains that on the surface, it is still magic.

Mr. Sunnys wrote:The tree "spirits" as you said were not spirits. They were tree people. In the series, that is mentioned many times. The same with water PEOPLE.


Those are actually pagan entities, called, respectively, dryads and naiads, which are tree and water nymphs--spirits.

(Edited because having factual information instead of simply relying on a fuzzy knowledge of the Percy Jackson mythology helps.)

Mr. Sunnys wrote:CoN had no coarse language whatsoever. Again, have you actually read this book?
It had no sexual references. But the Bible did. Should we not read it?
CoN had no drug use. The Bible did, should we not read it?
Alcohol is not evil or wrong. Like with many things in life, it depends how you use it.


MT was not speaking solely of CoN when he posted that; I believe he was speaking of the points of my argument on media as a whole.

When were drugs used in the Bible? I'm not being argumentative in this case; I'm actually curious. Where and in what passage?

Also, props to you for stating that drinking in and of itself is not sinful. Few people seem to differentiate between "drinking" and "drunken".
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Re: The Bible and Pagan Mythology

Postby Mr. Sunnys » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:41 pm

Well, I believe Samson asked for marijuana. (Probably not, though)
And God said not to use drugs. Thatcher said anything that mentions drugs etc is bad.
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Re: The Bible and Pagan Mythology

Postby TigerintheShadows » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:23 pm

Most of the passages I've found are about not conforming to the world and about not going out and getting drunk, but I agree in the sense that it comes to the same thing--if your body is a "temple unto the Lord" and is to be presented as a "living sacrifice", it would make sense that you would not use a substance that you should know to be harmful to your body. (And now I shall sit quietly and wait for this phraseology to be used against me.)
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Re: The Bible and Pagan Mythology

Postby Margaret Thatcher » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:51 pm

I agree, most books these days aren't God honoring. Does that mean we give up and read them anyway? Ideas can be dangerous and as you say even non-real things can be idols.

Mr. Sunnys as Tiger mentioned I wasn't saying those were all present in CoN but to his larger point about media in general. However alcohol is present and I don't think it has any good use.

You make a good point about violence, that is sometimes necessary for good guys to use. But as for those other things I don't think it is ever a good idea to show those in a positive light. You may be right that it is okay to use them sometimes but I wonder why read stories where you have to cherry pick the good out of the book? Why not just read a good book?

Thank you, yes Lewis obviously did mean something else but I feel like it strays too close to actual magic use by the good guys.

And yes the creatures were spirits.

Also Mr. Sunny I never said that any mention of drugs is bad, obviously a mention to not use them would in fact be very good! But would you read a story where the supposed good guys take drugs?
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Re: The Bible and Pagan Mythology

Postby TigerintheShadows » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:56 am

Margaret Thatcher wrote:but to his larger point about media in general.


*her ;)

Margaret Thatcher wrote:You may be right that it is okay to use them sometimes but I wonder why read stories where you have to cherry pick the good out of the book? Why not just read a good book?


I agree with you on having to cherrypick the good out of some books--plenty of examples come to mind (Twilight and The Hunger Games, among others, though that's my personal view). But the thing is, Harry Potter and Chronicles of Narnia don't require me to cherrypick the good out of them--but they certainly require me to cherrypick the bad.

Margaret Thatcher wrote:Does that mean we give up and read them anyway? Ideas can be dangerous


Mmm. I would think that at least being willing to expose yourself to entertainment in which the characters don't hold themselves to your moral standards would at the very least open up an interesting discussion about discernment. It's certainly an opportunity for a reminder that what is acceptable in fiction is not always acceptable in the real world. That's the reason why I think HP and CoN are okay--if you can keep the perspective that it's fiction and actually keep your head screwed on straight while you read--a valuable skill for any human being--it really won't be invasive to your mind in the damaging way people like to claim it will be.
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Re: The Bible and Pagan Mythology

Postby jelly » Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:01 pm

Margaret Thatcher wrote:Ideas can be dangerous

Ideas fuel meaning and renew life. Barricading yourself into a closed system of routine and mediocrity does the opposite. ;)
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