This Needs to Stop! (PETITION)

[American Eagle]

...you thought this topic was more "I hate the new Odyssey!" griping, didn't you?

Well, it's not. This topic is about "FAIO", or "FREE Adventures in Odyssey". I have wanted to bring this topic up in the past, but decided not to because that potentially could cause more traffic for the site. I was incredibly ticked off at the site during the weekly releases of The Green Ring Conspiracy, but decided to wait for the right time to start this discussion.

FAIO is a fansite that links to hundreds (count 'em, HUNDREDS) of Odyssey episodes available online. At one point, I believe they had every episode (aside from the hard-to-find ones). Focus on the Family has removed many of them, but FAIO is relentless in its search for more illegally uploaded episodes. The homepage boasts, "We currently have over 460 full episodes."

My brother and I purchased The Green Ring Conspiracy as a digital download, along with many other fans who just couldn't wait. Before the episodes were released on the radio, someone uploaded them all to YouTube, and FAIO proudly announced the uploading. I was so frustrated to see like 2,000 people had listened to each episode! Think of all the money FOTF is losing!

Here we are. Clanging Cymbols is preparing for release. Undoubably, it will be uploaded to YouTube, Grooveshark or another place, FAIO will share it with its followers, and many thousands of dollars will be lost. FOTF won't last forever, friends.

...so, what can we do? If you're part of this website, I beg of you to leave it. Take a stand. Do the right thing.

Perhaps we could petition the owner of the site to close it down? Am I the other one bothered here?

Edit: Sign the Petition!

[Lee]

Yeah, AE, that isn't right. I agree with you...

...however, I must admit, I did find TGRC on youtube and because I couldn't wait, I did listen to it on there.

But I'll be good when Clanging Cymbals comes out. How would we go about signing a petition?


it is questionable however, if FAIO is worse than any other website with illegally downloaded music. How many times have any of us put music on our mp3 players or ipods, that we don't actually own? Not that that makes it right or anything... I'm not really sure exactly how I feel about them doing this.

[The Top Crusader]

I think something that is often overlooked in cases like this is, while yes, the company may lose a few purchases, the vast majority of piraters honestly would never spend the money on whatever they are getting for free anyway. So someone listens all at once to GRC instead of listening on their local Christian radio station... but they were probably never going to own it... OR they want the physical copy and the pirated version hits the internet first, so they just listen to it early and still buy the product.

For example if I see a movie in theaters I really like, there is NO WAY I am going to pay to see the movie in theaters twice. Absolutely no way. BUT hey if before the DVD is released I can get a good copy online, I will--but I'll still pre-order the DVD and get it day one. So no one is losing any money on most of this kind of thing.

[Jason Whits Son]

While I don't necessarily agree with it, are they really in the wrong? They encourage people to donate to Focus, and they are simply taking episodes archived elsewhere. They aren't uploading them to their site. Right?

[AIO Psyche]

...you thought this topic was more "I hate the new Odyssey!" griping, didn't you?

Well, it's not. This topic is about "FAIO", or "FREE Adventures in Odyssey". I have wanted to bring this topic up in the past, but decided not to because that potentially could cause more traffic for the site. I was incredibly ticked off at the site during the weekly releases of The Green Ring Conspiracy, but decided to wait for the right time to start this discussion.

FAIO is a fansite that links to hundreds (count 'em, HUNDREDS) of Odyssey episodes available online. At one point, I believe they had every episode (aside from the hard-to-find ones). Focus on the Family has removed many of them, but FAIO is relentless in its search for more illegally uploaded episodes. The homepage boasts, "We currently have over 460 full episodes."

My brother and I purchased The Green Ring Conspiracy as a digital download, along with many other fans who just couldn't wait. Before the episodes were released on the radio, someone uploaded them all to YouTube, and FAIO proudly announced the uploading. I was so frustrated to see like 2,000 people had listened to each episode! Think of all the money FOTF is losing!

Here we are. Clanging Cymbols is preparing for release. Undoubably, it will be uploaded to YouTube, Grooveshark or another place, FAIO will share it with its followers, and many thousands of dollars will be lost. FOTF won't last forever, friends.

...so, what can we do? If you're part of this website, I beg of you to leave it. Take a stand. Do the right thing.

Perhaps we could petition the owner of the site to close it down? Am I the other one bothered here?

So, posting a link to the site in question is going to accomplish........what?

Honestly, I hadn't even heard of it until I saw this thread. And thanks to your link, I now can access the site with ease. Seems to me you just helped this site increase it's traffic with free advertisement. And yes, I fully plan on using this site.

They okay them for free online and in the radio, how is this any different? They aren't making money off AIO, and they aren't ruining their reputation or anything.

Seems harmless.

[odysseyfan1]

...however, I must admit, I did find TGRC on youtube and because I couldn't wait, I did listen to it on there.

Shame! Repent!

...you thought this topic was more "I hate the new Odyssey!" griping, didn't you?

Well, it's not. This topic is about "FAIO", or "FREE Adventures in Odyssey". I have wanted to bring this topic up in the past, but decided not to because that potentially could cause more traffic for the site. I was incredibly ticked off at the site during the weekly releases of The Green Ring Conspiracy, but decided to wait for the right time to start this discussion.

FAIO is a fansite that links to hundreds (count 'em, HUNDREDS) of Odyssey episodes available online. At one point, I believe they had every episode (aside from the hard-to-find ones). Focus on the Family has removed many of them, but FAIO is relentless in its search for more illegally uploaded episodes. The homepage boasts, "We currently have over 460 full episodes."

My brother and I purchased The Green Ring Conspiracy as a digital download, along with many other fans who just couldn't wait. Before the episodes were released on the radio, someone uploaded them all to YouTube, and FAIO proudly announced the uploading. I was so frustrated to see like 2,000 people had listened to each episode! Think of all the money FOTF is losing!

Here we are. Clanging Cymbols is preparing for release. Undoubably, it will be uploaded to YouTube, Grooveshark or another place, FAIO will share it with its followers, and many thousands of dollars will be lost. FOTF won't last forever, friends.

...so, what can we do? If you're part of this website, I beg of you to leave it. Take a stand. Do the right thing.

Perhaps we could petition the owner of the site to close it down? Am I the other one bothered here?

Yeah, I used to use FAIO. I don't much anymore, simply because I don't want to. I wouldn't mind seeing them shut down.

My biggest problem with this would be the YouTube episodes. I don't believe it's legal to post them there. Grooveshark has questionable legality. (BTW, if Focus would go and register with Grooveshark they would get money each time an episode was played.)

[snubs]

I agree with you, AE and Top. People may just listen to it online with every intention of buying the volume. However I don't think the site is good at all, and we should try and take action in whatever way we can.

I want FOTF to continue producing AIO (even though I think the latest episodes are lacking) and they cannot do that without the fans buying the episodes.

[American Eagle]

While I don't necessarily agree with it, are they really in the wrong? They encourage people to donate to Focus, and they are simply taking episodes archived elsewhere. They aren't uploading them to their site. Right?

They are promoting illegal, unbiblical activity, and that alone is sin.

Honestly, I hadn't even heard of it until I saw this thread. And thanks to your link, I now can access the site with ease. Seems to me you just helped this site increase it's traffic with free advertisement. And yes, I fully plan on using this site.

Whatever. Based on what this, I highly doubt you even read my whole post, because I addressed that very problem.

Thanks to the few of you who care about this. I'm amazed that some of you... just don't care.

[Laurie]

I agree with everything said here. I buy the albums, not from FOTF but from whichever Christian bookstore has it in stock when I'm there. I never, ever go to these download sites.

[The Top Crusader]

Actually a couple times I DID go to the free AIO site just to see what it was all about it and usually crashes my browser, so...

[American Eagle]

Actually a couple times I DID go to the free AIO site just to see what it was all about it and usually crashes my browser, so...

The hand of God, I say!

[Taps]

Actually a couple times I DID go to the free AIO site just to see what it was all about it and usually crashes my browser, so...

The hand of God, I say!

LOL


I used that website once and never will again. (Not because it crashes) i'm really ticked cause my best friends brother downloaded them all to his computer when they had them all and now he has the complete collection of AIO without buying barely any of it! This website must go down in FLAMES

[The Top Crusader]

I'll be honest. I don't feel bad downloading MP3's of episodes I own on cassette... because I have like a bajillion cassette albums and I bought a converter but it doesn't work well.

[American Eagle]

I'll be honest. I don't feel bad downloading MP3's of episodes I own on cassette... because I have like a bajillion cassette albums and I bought a converter but it doesn't work well.

FOTF is fine with that, I'm sure. In the Hoobler chat, Nathan talked about creating a program where you can trade in your old cassettes for CDs. As long as you purchased the tapes, I believe you have every legal right to keep a digital copy for yourself.

[Catspaw]

I'm with AE on this one. We're so used to free everything that we sometimes forget that it costs money to produce AIO. The best way to say that we want them to continue to make it is to buy the product. I own all the albums (most of them on both tape and CD, for the ones from before they only released them on CD), so I know that I'm in a fortunate position in that I can listen to any episode any time without a site like that, but isn't one's conscience worth something? (i.e. a lot?) Would you walk into a bookstore, steal a Bible, and then justify it by saying that everybody should have free access to the word of God? Would you walk into your local Christian bookstore, steal an album of AIO, and smile and feel good about it? I know that not every person who listens on illegal sites would pay for the product, but does that justify anything? Picture yourself talking to God...or actually pray right now! Do you think God would accept the excuse of, "Well, I know I stole it, but lots of people do it. And I didn't really want to pay money for it. And hey, FOTF must have lots of money, being a not-for-profit Christian organization and all..." Like AE, this really bothers me. By using such a site (and posts like Taps indicate that there are people who use this FAIO site extensively, and if somebody is willing to download the complete collection, surely they must be a big enough fan to commit a few dollars) people are taking away from what makes AIO possible. That's not okay with me.

My opinion is that if you have money to buy movies or see movies in the theatre, or go to Starbucks, or any other non-essential thing that a lot of people do, then you have money to get AIO legitimately. Don't suppress your conscience and pretend that because you're listening to something good, God won't care that you're stealing it. All my albums when I was a kid came as Christmas and birthday presents. For years I've worked and have bought my own albums. Whatever place you're at in life, I think there will be a way to get episodes without ripping off FOTF. Maybe not all at once or exactly when you want them, but it will be worth it to do things the right way.

Psalm 19:13 - "Keep me from deliberate sins! Don't let them control me. Then I will be free of guilt and innocent of great sin." Maybe you listened unethically but didn't really think about it. Maybe you didn't realize it was wrong, or didn't want to admit it was wrong. Maybe God used AE's thread to convict you today. Like David, let your heart's cry be, "Keep me from deliberate sins!" God is a good God to warn us and offer correction. To be "free of guilt and innocent of great sin" sounds like a tremendous gift. Don't let lies get in the way of a clean conscience and drawing closer to God.

[The Top Crusader]

I think people don't consider digital theft in the same way (rather they should or not) because yes, stealing a CD is literally costing a company money. Downloading an MP3 isn't losing anyone any money, even if it is indeed theft.

Like the promo things they used to put on DVDs that say, "YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A CAR....!" Well, sure, I wouldn't steal a car, but if I could see a car I liked, download it, and have an exact copy of it for myself without taking anyones physical property, I would consider it!

[Leonard Meltsner]

Thank you Catspaw, for that wonderful post, and AE, for addressing the subject. I'm absolutely appalled at what this site does, and to quote Tom, "would tear it down with my bare hands"! This is not only STEALING from Focus, but it's STEALING FROM GOD'S WORK. There is no justification for this. This can in no way be classified as a "Right, right". This is the very time when Focus needs our support the most! I don't know if any of you have seen the commercial for Focus on FB, or anywhere else asking for donations. If I remember correctly, they are so behind in giving that they're trying to collect 4 MILLION DOLLARS by the end of the summer to continue their different ministries. It's exactly sites like FAIO that have caused this travesty! Rise up ToOers!!! DESTROY NOVA... err.... FAIO!!!!

[Laurie]

FOTF brings this on themselves: people want the hard to find episodes, or can't afford the albums so they use these sites. They would not have this problem if they would release the hard to find episodes on CD. They need to do that and they should do that. I've been saying it for years. If they can re release the Gold Audio, Novacom plus all of the other albums, they can release the episodes not on CD.

[odysseyfan1]

Well, sure, I wouldn't steal a car, but if I could see a car I liked, download it, and have an exact copy of it for myself without taking anyones physical property, I would consider it!

lol.

[The Hippie]

Actually, i'm pretty sure this is completely legal, cause it's streaming. If you boycott this site, then you will have to boycott youtube for all the songs they have on there (which are legal) but listening to a song on youtube is the exact same thing as listening to an AIO episode on this site.