The Ties that Bind

[jennifertwt]

Other than the Oddcast, is anyone else discussing these eps?

[Dallas R.]

We really should be! Wow. They are fantastic. There is a discussion on the Soda Shop, but it's riddled with spoilers. They're put in spoiler tags, but it renders the discussion impossible to comprehend.

Honestly, especially with the club releasing the album early, I think the week to week discussion is a thing of AIO past. And that makes me sad.

[jennifertwt]

I have heard the whole album so it is hard to keep the eps "separate" in my mind. I will check out the soda shop. I am sad about the weekly discussion being passé. It was one of the things I enjoyed most about this site.

[WindowWasher]

Where is the soda shop?

Edit: Never mind. Found it.

[Jehoshaphat]

BUt anyway we should discuss these here. They are marvelous episodes that deal with things that ahve not been discussed on AIO before. They dealt with this subject very well and in a way that wasn't explicit. I think this is the best album since the reboot.

[Wakko]

They dealt with this subject very well and in a way that wasn't explicit.

I disagree, it was almost too subtle. You knew the whole time they were talking about gay marriage, but they used words such as "tolerance" as a replacement for gay marriage. Which made it very confusing the whole time.

[jennifertwt]

I agree I Think it will be more confusing to kids. If they wanted to reach the target audience, which I thought was one of the Points of the relaunch, they need to use the same Words that they will hear in the media. Having said that, I Think the whole topic is a bit beyond the target audience and should be addressed more in teen dramas or in the adult Focus on the Family program. I also know some people who are not letting their Children listen yet because they are too Young and they don't want to "go there" yet. Teens and parents do certainly need education in both what the bible says and how to have biblical responses to those who choose to live differently, but I am not sure AIO was the Place.

[TigerintheShadows]

I Think the whole topic is a bit beyond the target audience

Dreamworks and Focus Pictures, both of which released animated films marketed for children around the AIO target age, don't seem to agree, considering that How to Train Your Dragon 2 and Paranorman both have openly gay characters (though Gobber wasn't actually revealed in the film proper to be gay, there's still a third movie coming up and the news media had a field day with the reveal). Nor does Rick Riordan, who recently openly outed a major character in his Heroes of Olympus series, aimed at preteens, as gay and teased a relationship between that character and another boy. Kids are getting inundated with the normalization and promotion of homosexuality, so it doesn't make much sense to me that Christian entertainment aimed for that same age group not be explicit about God's design.

They dealt with this subject very well

I disagree. I think that many of the lessons were very forced and mechanic—it was like, "Now seems like a perfect time for a lesson that I had preplanned for some mysterious reason."

The Parker situation especially was really badly mishandled in favor of the Perilous Pen/Maximized Comics storyline; they're really tense with each other, they talk it out, they're mostly fine, Olivia's confused, she goes on an RoC adventure that we never see (which is poor storytelling, if nothing else), and suddenly everything is back to normal. That's not even poor handling of the lesson—it's bad writing, and I highly doubt that it would have happened with fourteen episodes to work with had there not been the massive plot tumor of the comics storyline.

Additionally, Ms. Adelaide was really wasted as a character; she came across as a strawman, not someone who actually believed what she was saying. She was very obviously the evil liberal who wants their ideology to rule the world and make everyone gay (er, sorry, "tolerant and inclusive"). For one thing, she should have been portrayed more sympathetically—we are not supposed to view people who disagree with us on this issue as evil antagonists trying to destroy our way of life—and for another, we should have heard more of her story. The whole "sick brother" thing has already been done to characterize a "villainous" character, but Monica Stone's character and motivations were spelled out more explicitly and more sympathetically in a two-minute scene in one episode than Ms. Adelaide's were in several minutes of scenes.

I also didn't care for Jay's storyline; other than to reiterate some snarky comments Focus was making about sexuality as portrayed on TV, what purpose did that serve beyond giving the kids something superfluous to do?

I did appreciate the return of Buck, though; I found him a compelling character, and I look forward to seeing what the AIO team does with him and his interactions with the other kids around town. I loved his conversation with Camilla; he sounded like a caring older brother figure.

[Wakko]

^This.
I feel like if maybe they cut out some of the story lines, or even just made the album longer so they could further explore some of the story lines. The album would've been much more enjoyable.

[Marvin D.]

I Think the whole topic is a bit beyond the target audience

Dreamworks and Focus Pictures, both of which released animated films marketed for children around the AIO target age, don't seem to agree, considering that How to Train Your Dragon 2 and Paranorman both have openly gay characters (though Gobber wasn't actually revealed in the film proper to be gay, there's still a third movie coming up and the news media had a field day with the reveal). Nor does Rick Riordan, who recently openly outed a major character in his Heroes of Olympus series, aimed at preteens, as gay and teased a relationship between that character and another boy. Kids are getting inundated with the normalization and promotion of homosexuality, so it doesn't make much sense to me that Christian entertainment aimed for that same age group not be explicit about God's design.

They dealt with this subject very well

I disagree. I think that many of the lessons were very forced and mechanic—it was like, "Now seems like a perfect time for a lesson that I had preplanned for some mysterious reason."

The Parker situation especially was really badly mishandled in favor of the Perilous Pen/Maximized Comics storyline; they're really tense with each other, they talk it out, they're mostly fine, Olivia's confused, she goes on an RoC adventure that we never see (which is poor storytelling, if nothing else), and suddenly everything is back to normal. That's not even poor handling of the lesson—it's bad writing, and I highly doubt that it would have happened with fourteen episodes to work with had there not been the massive plot tumor of the comics storyline.

Additionally, Ms. Adelaide was really wasted as a character; she came across as a strawman, not someone who actually believed what she was saying. She was very obviously the evil liberal who wants their ideology to rule the world and make everyone gay (er, sorry, "tolerant and inclusive"). For one thing, she should have been portrayed more sympathetically—we are not supposed to view people who disagree with us on this issue as evil antagonists trying to destroy our way of life—and for another, we should have heard more of her story. The whole "sick brother" thing has already been done to characterize a "villainous" character, but Monica Stone's character and motivations were spelled out more explicitly and more sympathetically in a two-minute scene in one episode than Ms. Adelaide's were in several minutes of scenes.

I also didn't care for Jay's storyline; other than to reiterate some snarky comments Focus was making about sexuality as portrayed on TV, what purpose did that serve beyond giving the kids something superfluous to do?

I did appreciate the return of Buck, though; I found him a compelling character, and I look forward to seeing what the AIO team does with him and his interactions with the other kids around town. I loved his conversation with Camilla; he sounded like a caring older brother figure.

Honestly, Tiger has hit the proverbial nail on its head. I mostly agree with everything she said. The most disappointing aspect of the whole album in a sentence would be this: imbalanced focus on the storylines, with unnecessary focus on the Perilous Pen (which, in the end, turned out to be fairly obvious and disappointing.)

Now, WHERE ARE TIGER AND MY OPPOSERS?!

[Woody]

Yeah, the Perilous Pen was obvious from Episode 1. I had hoped it was a red herring, but alas. And I also agree that most of the storylines suffered in favor of the comic storyline. I feel like this album would have been way better if it were separated into individual stories(i.e. a one, maybe two-part episode for the Parkers' tension, four parts for the comic storyline, 3 or 4 parts for Buck, and 4 parts for Whit and Ms. Adelaide, and MAYBE a one part episode for the TV show storyline.)

Also, anyone notice that Whit randomly collapsed and it got completely ignored?

[Graces4you]

To be honest I haven't really followed AIO since the Green Ring, however I have been listening to The Ties that Bind and I agree it is pretty disappointing. I miss the days where FOTF was willing to take risks and had higher quality story lines. The fact that they are skirting around the topic of gay marriage and are not flat out addressing it is disappointing. Same sex marriage is a prominent topic and regardless of how they address it, there will always be someone who is offended. I think that they could have addressed it in a way that was more straightforward and less "uncomfortable" per se way.

[TigerintheShadows]

Now that I think about it, I wonder if this storyline wouldn't have been more compelling if there had actually been a character—one whom we know and love, not someone introduced solely for this purpose—who struggles with homosexual attraction. The writers would have been forced to confront the issue both directly and sensitively, and it would have made much more of an impact (assuming that they did the thing properly) to see how to actually handle something like this by being kind, yet firm, on God's design. (This person would probably also have to be a Christian, since most of the characters we're attached to are Christians, which would put the lie to the idea that one cannot be a Christian and struggle—operative word being struggle—with homosexuality. Christians wrestle with all manner of sexual sins, and it would help if this one in particular wasn't danced around or vaulted into a position of "worst and only sin" the way it so often is.)

[Jeffster]

Now that I think about it, I wonder if this storyline wouldn't have been more compelling if there had actually been a character—one whom we know and love, not someone introduced solely for this purpose—who struggles with homosexual attraction. The writers would have been forced to confront the issue both directly and sensitively, and it would have made much more of an impact (assuming that they did the thing properly) to see how to actually handle something like this by being kind, yet firm, on God's design. (This person would probably also have to be a Christian, since most of the characters we're attached to are Christians, which would put the lie to the idea that one cannot be a Christian and struggle—operative word being struggle—with homosexuality. Christians wrestle with all manner of sexual sins, and it would help if this one in particular wasn't danced around or vaulted into a position of "worst and only sin" the way it so often is.)

I agree that would have been more compelling. Unfortunately, it would have likely generated much more negative feedback than positive.

[TigerintheShadows]

How so?

[jennifertwt]

I think Tiger has hit the nail on the head and also the heart of the issue. Whit did a good job of saying we are to respect all persons, but not quite far enough. to struggle with any sort of temptation is not sin, how we respond to people with such temptations is the issue each of us must face almost daily in today's society. As a personal example, my best friend since high school "came out" in our 30's, we are now 49. I struggled with how to respond as a Christian since he had all but abandoned his faith and concluded that for me to end the friendship solely because of this issue would have been "sin" on my part, but it was a struggle. God still loves him, so I should too, but then one must ask oneself what exactly does that mean in daily life and accepting/issuing social invitations, associating with said friend's friends, etc. There is a large difference between accepting what is and "promoting", this episode sort of hit that topic, but not exactly hard enough in my opinion. There could have been done a lot more with Olivia and Matthew's questioning other than stories of pencils, though it is a good start.

[Woody]

Here's what I submitted to the Avery Awards in answer to the question: "What did you like in Album 58: "The Ties that Bind"? What didn't you like?" It sums up my feelings toward the album pretty well.

I liked the return of Jules, and I hope to see(hear?) more of her soon. I loved the Doctor Who reference at Comic-Connelsville.

However, I thought the storylines were way too jumbled up, and discontinuous. I think it would have been better to have each plot split into its own multi-part episode, giving each storyline the attention it deserves.

The next issue is one of predictability. The #1 reason any story becomes a favorite of mine is if it surprises me. Album 58 failed to do that on multiple occasions. I knew from the moment the Perilous Pen was mentioned that Jules was involved, not to mention Buck's adoption. Even Hadley stealing Wooton's art was anticipated.

Another thing this album lacked was believability. Ms. Adelaide specifically. Her actions were unbelievable, to say the least. Her brother's illness explains her tolerance campaign, but I don't know any English teachers who would hire a gang to vandalize Whit's End because the owner wouldn't hang up a silly little poster. Oh, and wasn't she a drama teacher before?

Also, there were several things left unresolved. For instance, Whit's collapse at the board meeting. I feel like what could have been a great storyline was wasted just to get Whit into the hospital to meet Ms. Adelaide's brother. I hope Whit's health issues are addressed in the near future. There's also the Parker's "tenseness" and Olivia's Room of Consequence adventure.

Likely my biggest complaint though, is that the message was very, very vague. I realize you were dealing with a touchy subject, but you can't teach a lesson about something without even saying what it is. Using vague terms such as "tolerance" fogs up the moral of the story, making it only accessible to kids outside of your target age range. Most 12-year-olds have no idea of the meaning of the word "tolerance" in our culture, nor of the things people like Ms. Adelaide expect us to tolerate. Now, I know the argument can be made that kids should talk to their parents about it, but then parents who don't want to expose their children to the things addressed in this album will be put in the awkward position of not wanting to tell their kids what the characters mean by "tolerance". In my opinion, it would have been much better to have just addressed the issue of homosexuality plainly, and put a parental warning on the episodes for parents that think their children too young to be exposed to the issue. In short, if you're going to address a touchy subject, just address it. Don't beat around the bush.

In short, Album 58 would have been much better if each plot had gotten a multi-part episode to itself, had more surprises, more believable characters, less loose ends, and less vagueness.

[Christian A.]

Another thing this album lacked was believability. Ms. Adelaide specifically. Her actions were unbelievable, to say the least. Her brother's illness explains her tolerance campaign, but I don't know any English teachers who would hire a gang to vandalize Whit's End because the owner wouldn't hang up a silly little poster. Oh, and wasn't she a drama teacher before?

Ms. Adelaide did not hire the gang. The Vigilantes seem to be a group that is always on the lookout for an LGBT organization to support and/or supposedly-anti-LGBT people to vandalize. Ms. Adelaide knew about the vandalism and who was behind it, but she didn't stop it. That was the extent of her involvement.

[jennifertwt]

Woody has summed up the album nicely. Also the lack of individual episode titles makes it difficult to Think "I want to listen to the one about.....". Nice job!

[Jonathan]

Using vague terms such as "tolerance" fogs up the moral of the story, making it only accessible to kids outside of your target age range.

An important statement, considering the pains they've taken to alienate older fans in the last two years or so.