Divided
Is Modern Youth Ministry Multiplying or Dividing the Church?
- Amethystic
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Divided
Say, has anyone seen the documentary "Divided"? If not, you can watch it here in its entirety until September: http://vimeo.com/26098320 It's definitely a must-see. Do you think that modern youth ministry is hurting the church and the family?
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I didn't see the whole video and don't really have time at the moment...so apologies if this opinion is unwarranted, lol. Here's my take on youth ministry.
Personally, it did me a lot of good. I wouldn't be where I am today without the youth ministry at my church--the leaders helped me grow closer to God and set the example I needed to pull me away from the direction I had started toward at the beginning of my teen years. I developed friendships and a positive social life from it while learning a lot about God. And yes, I did go to a few of the large conference-type concert-like gatherings...and guess what? I still remember some of the lessons I learned from those.
I do have some issues with the so-called seeker-friendly mega churches that get all flashy and dramatic. It takes away from the real message of the gospel and just gives a surface message with little substantial spiritual "food" per se. I appreciate their desire to appeal to people in all walks of life, but when they don't get beyond the initial salvation message, people can't grow and some can become like the proverbial "seed that fell on rocky ground". However, I think this is a problem with the church as a whole, not just the youth ministry...a lot of the time it is the youth that are attracted to stuff like this, but I believe it is the fault of the entire church for not providing an environment the promotes growth. I agree with something one of the commenters said: "Bad youth groups are the fruit of bad churches. The church is the issue here, not youth groups or children’s ministries. Many young people are under poor pastoral leadership in churches that teach a weak gospel or worse have abandoned the gospel all together."
Fake Christians will exist no matter what you do...the reason that one of the biggest dropout of church attendance and faith is during the teen years is because they are a time when kids are exposed to a number of negative influences and are beginning to think on things for themselves, and often the corruption found in schools and culture wherever you go will draw some away. Both in the teens and during college, people begin to really question what they believe and why they believe it...and it is during these times that they will make the decision to pursue their faith or reject it for various reasons. I also agree with one of the commenters that the "young earth doctrine" isn't essential to salvation, and I guarantee that most kids' lack of belief in the young earth is from the evolution taught in science classes in school--not from youth groups. I know some churches that don't have a youth ministry...one church I know was made up of very conservative families, the whole family stayed together during service, and no ministry directed toward any age group. People from there still left the church the moment they graduated high school and were no longer required to go to church.
Finally, another point is made about the family. I agree that parents should be the first source of teaching for their kids and the primary example for their kids...and sadly, that is often not the case anymore. As the video stated, some families are divorced, and some parents have weak faith themselves. This isn't the fault of youth ministry...this is the unfortunate turn of Christianity as a whole. So what do we do with the kids/teens who have parents who aren't Christians? What do we do with kids who have parents who have a weak faith and aren't concerned about being an example for their kids? What do we do with uninvolved parents? Sadly, the church has had to take over in some of these areas--this is not the ideal, but it is good that there are adults who are genuinely interested in the teens who can be role models for them when role models are otherwise lacking. So for those families who ARE together and ARE strong Christians, I think they should lead their kids...I know families who will go to church, then afterward, they sit and discuss what each of them learned in Sunday school--I think that is great because it forces kids to think and remember what they learn, and gets the parents to know exactly where the kids are and what they are learning. I don't think there is anything wrong with having programs directed toward certain ages--when I was a kid and sat in the adult service, which I did for quite a while, I have to honestly admit that i didn't get much out of it. I was bored, I didn't understand how stuff was relevant, I couldn't discuss it...I don't remember anything of what I sat through in sermons...I DO remember stuff from Sunday school and the things I was taught there.
Anyway...that's a bit of my rant...sorry it was so long!
Personally, it did me a lot of good. I wouldn't be where I am today without the youth ministry at my church--the leaders helped me grow closer to God and set the example I needed to pull me away from the direction I had started toward at the beginning of my teen years. I developed friendships and a positive social life from it while learning a lot about God. And yes, I did go to a few of the large conference-type concert-like gatherings...and guess what? I still remember some of the lessons I learned from those.
I do have some issues with the so-called seeker-friendly mega churches that get all flashy and dramatic. It takes away from the real message of the gospel and just gives a surface message with little substantial spiritual "food" per se. I appreciate their desire to appeal to people in all walks of life, but when they don't get beyond the initial salvation message, people can't grow and some can become like the proverbial "seed that fell on rocky ground". However, I think this is a problem with the church as a whole, not just the youth ministry...a lot of the time it is the youth that are attracted to stuff like this, but I believe it is the fault of the entire church for not providing an environment the promotes growth. I agree with something one of the commenters said: "Bad youth groups are the fruit of bad churches. The church is the issue here, not youth groups or children’s ministries. Many young people are under poor pastoral leadership in churches that teach a weak gospel or worse have abandoned the gospel all together."
Fake Christians will exist no matter what you do...the reason that one of the biggest dropout of church attendance and faith is during the teen years is because they are a time when kids are exposed to a number of negative influences and are beginning to think on things for themselves, and often the corruption found in schools and culture wherever you go will draw some away. Both in the teens and during college, people begin to really question what they believe and why they believe it...and it is during these times that they will make the decision to pursue their faith or reject it for various reasons. I also agree with one of the commenters that the "young earth doctrine" isn't essential to salvation, and I guarantee that most kids' lack of belief in the young earth is from the evolution taught in science classes in school--not from youth groups. I know some churches that don't have a youth ministry...one church I know was made up of very conservative families, the whole family stayed together during service, and no ministry directed toward any age group. People from there still left the church the moment they graduated high school and were no longer required to go to church.
Finally, another point is made about the family. I agree that parents should be the first source of teaching for their kids and the primary example for their kids...and sadly, that is often not the case anymore. As the video stated, some families are divorced, and some parents have weak faith themselves. This isn't the fault of youth ministry...this is the unfortunate turn of Christianity as a whole. So what do we do with the kids/teens who have parents who aren't Christians? What do we do with kids who have parents who have a weak faith and aren't concerned about being an example for their kids? What do we do with uninvolved parents? Sadly, the church has had to take over in some of these areas--this is not the ideal, but it is good that there are adults who are genuinely interested in the teens who can be role models for them when role models are otherwise lacking. So for those families who ARE together and ARE strong Christians, I think they should lead their kids...I know families who will go to church, then afterward, they sit and discuss what each of them learned in Sunday school--I think that is great because it forces kids to think and remember what they learn, and gets the parents to know exactly where the kids are and what they are learning. I don't think there is anything wrong with having programs directed toward certain ages--when I was a kid and sat in the adult service, which I did for quite a while, I have to honestly admit that i didn't get much out of it. I was bored, I didn't understand how stuff was relevant, I couldn't discuss it...I don't remember anything of what I sat through in sermons...I DO remember stuff from Sunday school and the things I was taught there.
Anyway...that's a bit of my rant...sorry it was so long!
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I watche the half hour or so of this film the other day. There's no point in me giving my opinion because SLOTR said everything that I was going to.
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- Laura Ingalls
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I've seen it, as people probably been able to tell from my siggy the past couple of weeks. I thought it was a great thought-provoking film.
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I will try to watch this later, but as of now I haven't actually seen what the film is saying so my ability to comment is limited.
That being said, I don't think sweeping generalizations do anyone any good. "Modern Youth Ministry is Contrary to Scripture"? I've no doubt some is. I have, however, been in many churches over the years and experienced many different types of youth ministry... so the basic premise seems flawed.
That being said, I don't think sweeping generalizations do anyone any good. "Modern Youth Ministry is Contrary to Scripture"? I've no doubt some is. I have, however, been in many churches over the years and experienced many different types of youth ministry... so the basic premise seems flawed.
Since this is related to the media, I'll move it to the Harlequin's.
That said, I started watching it but never got further than 5 minutes
That said, I started watching it but never got further than 5 minutes
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- Amethystic
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Yeah, I believe it was your signature that I got it from in the first place. The attention you gave it is very warranted.Laura Ingalls wrote:I've seen it, as people probably been able to tell from my siggy the past couple of weeks. I thought it was a great thought-provoking film.
And I've had as many good youth experiences as the next person (and of course I'm guessing that most of the ToO consists of people who also had good experiences), SLoTR, but I think the film made some very good points--we're so used to growing up with this stuff that we never stop to think about why we do what we do. At the very least, youth ministry as we're used to it is extremely ineffective, and at worst it's a big contributing factor to the generational drift in the church. There are obviously more than one contributing factor to the problem and a lot of changes need to be made, but maybe this is one of the changes we need? You should definitely watch the entire film soon--there are lots of important points made later on in the documentary.
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Youth ministry is contrary to scripture?! That's new to me. Well, I haven't seen the movie, so...
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Well then see it. It's free online, and very thought-provoking.
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Remember, I'm not allowed to watch movies without parental consent.Amethystic wrote:Well then see it. It's free online, and very thought-provoking.
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Well then ask. I'm sure they'll let you see this one.
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They are in Dominica for a week. Plus they don't keep up with movie industry much. It doesn't look bad. (except for the rock concert part ) What is that part about anyway? Are they saying it's a good thing or bad thing?Amethystic wrote:Well then ask. I'm sure they'll let you see this one.
of1, my family is very conservative and we don't even watch movies. However, I saw this with my mom and I can guarantee you there is nothing bad in this movie. It was very well done and though provoking.odysseyfan1 wrote:Youth ministry is contrary to scripture?! That's new to me. Well, I haven't seen the movie, so...
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You mean you didn't get to go! Are they going to or did they hold a VBS like Grandma Line (I mean Sis. Line (she went to Kokomo and everyone called her Grandma Line). If they did how many kids did they have? Anyway how is/did it go?
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Is this Dayton Hanes? If it is, you changed your name! If it isn't, you know Grandma Line?Orville Foil wrote:You mean you didn't get to go! Are they going to or did they hold a VBS like Grandma Line (I mean Sis. Line (she went to Kokomo and everyone called her Grandma Line). If they did how many kids did they have? Anyway how is/did it go?
They thought of doing a VBS, but no they didn't. They did do a kids service Wednesday. They had about 30 kids I think. My dad said it went well (the kids service, not VBS)
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O okay yeah it's me. I changed my name for a day for 10 dollars. You mean they left you with Ben all week!!!! Where are you staying!
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Orville Foil wrote:O okay yeah it's me. I changed my name for a day for 10 dollars. You mean they left you with Ben all week!!!! Where are you staying!
lol, yes! Cruel, isn't it! At my grandma's house.You mean they left you with Ben all week!!!!
-- 04 Aug 2011 08:39 pm --
Is it a movie or documentary?of1, my family is very conservative and we don't even watch movies. However, I saw this with my mom and I can guarantee you there is nothing bad in this movie. It was very well done and though provoking.
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I figured, is it your mom's mom because I know who she is. BTW you spelled my last name wrong.
We better stop having a one way chat here or the moderators might get mad!
We better stop having a one way chat here or the moderators might get mad!
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Yeah, I was thinking the same thing! Except, I think the person who started this topic would be madder than the mods! I'll PM you.Orville Foil wrote:I figured, is it your mom's mom because I know who she is. BTW you spelled my last name wrong.
We better stop having a one way chat here or the moderators might get mad!
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Well, documentaries are a genre of movies. And yes, it is a documentary.odysseyfan1 wrote:Is it a movie or documentary?
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance. ♡