We had our private showing! It wasn’t only a special showing just for us, it was also free. We even got free soda and popcorn. Pretty cool event! We could invite up to 15 people, ended up inviting a few under that, but not all of them were able to make it due to a prior commitment that day so it ended up being just six of us in the whole theater.
I liked the movie a lot. Even better than the first one, which I liked a lot. It was exciting and entertaining, and just fun to watch. As a movie.
I said I thought the first part was “excellent as a movie, and very good as The Hobbit.”
This one is also great as a movie, but it’s not The Hobbit. I can’t say it was terrible as The Hobbit, because it wasn’t The Hobbit. It was so not The Hobbit it can’t even fail in being The Hobbit.
I’m a selective book purist. I’m all over the Narnia movies for any changes but I don’t care at all about LotR. And The Hobbit is right in the middle. I’m a big fan of the story, I would like the movies to have as much integrity as possible, some things I’ll be upset over, but for the most part I can deal with alterations. But we’re not even in that conversation anymore. This has become such a foreign entity that I can’t even declare whether I find the changes acceptable or not, because it’s not The Hobbit anymore, so there are no changes. This is now Peter Jackson’s story. Do I agree with that change? Shifting from 'I’m going to adapt Tolkien’s classic' to 'I’m going to make this epic vision I have'? No I don’t. But after that, I have no say. This is Jackson’s story now, anything Jackson wants goes. It’s just a fantasy action movie now. I can say 'I like or don’t like this part' in relation to itself, but any discussion of 'this or that belongs or doesn’t belong in The Hobbit' is now irrelevant.
However, out of habit, that’s how I’m going to look at the things that most caught my attention anyway. Here are the thoughts I remember, probably not entirely in order since so much happened it’s hard to keep straight.
Not quite sure how to feel about the change to the Arkenstone. That it’s now the direct goal of the quest because Thorin needs it to reunite the kingdoms. In the book it’s just a side prize that he wants because it was his grandfather’s. So this kind of changes the whole story. This is a quest for the Arkenstone, and retaking the mountain is just a necessary part of that, instead of the quest being to retake the mountain because it’s their home and then Thorin also gets the Arkenstone.
I didn’t like that they just barged into Beorn’s like that instead of Gandalf being clever with his introductions, but I suppose that wouldn’t have made for a very exciting movie scene. It probably would have been terrible actually, just Gandalf retelling what had already happened in the previous movie. So I guess on further thought it’s perfectly understandable. Still a bit sad about it though.
The spiders were amazing! So well done, the look and just the scene in general. My only disappointment with that part was that Bilbo didn’t taunt them like in the book.
Changing their capture by the elves from eventually being caught in the woods to the elves coming in on the spider fight was a reasonable move, movie-wise. It didn’t really change anything in the story, just moved the elf encounter up sooner to make the plot flow better. Different circumstances but same end result.
The Gimli reference made me smile.
The trousers remark - completely out of place. I am still shaking my head about that.
What was up with the elf king’s face?
The escape from the elves being turned from a secret thing into a big fight and chase was necessary movie-wise, for multiple reasons. Such as with the addition of being hunted by orcs they followed them there and had to clash with the elves, and even before that if they had just quietly floated out in barrels it would have been a pretty boring scene. So I was alright with that, though the invincible Bombur in a barrel was pretty ridiculous.
Killi getting injured in the escape I didn’t have a problem with - at first. That is, the wound itself was reasonable as some drama caused by the battle scene. But later, when it was made into more than that, it was just dumb. A Morgul shaft? Seriously? I know you want a reason to bring your new character back into things, but was this really the best way you could think of to do it? I mean, the whole thing was so forced. Just the line made me groan. “We shot him with a Morgul shaft.” Really? That’s how you’re going to make this drag out?
And then of course that eventually necessitates splitting the party, which I was not okay with at all.
Legloas was the greatest! In LotR I got annoyed when they made him this superman that could do all those crazy elvish things, but in this I was like ‘Yeah man, go for it!’ The more ridiculously improbable the stunt the better!
Sauron’s reveal was awesome.
Bard getting an extremely enlarged part was tolerable, but unnecessary. As was the decision to make the Master of the Lake a corrupt tyrant just so it would make Bard an outlaw and add drama in him being at odds with the soldiers while helping the dwarves and then in prison when the dragon finally comes like ‘Oh no how will he shoot it now?’
Speaking of shooting the dragon, I cringed when I realized where they’re going with that. That it now has to be a certain arrow from a certain weapon to kill him. Make it as specific as possible so it makes for more suspense. By the way, there’s only one of the special arrows left too. One shot, make it count. So cliché.
Although, to be fair, it does make more sense this way. In the book it’s fine to say ‘if you hit him in the right spot a regular arrow will do it’ because there’s no visual, but here where we can see what a massive invincible beast Smaug is it would seem kind of improbable for a little old arrow to do anything, even if it found his weak spot.
Moving on to the dragon then, wow my expectations were outdone. The treasure hoard was even grander than I imagined it would be, and the shot of Smaug rising out of the gold was just awesome. And the voice was great as well. I wasn’t sure Benedict would be the right fit, but I was happy to be wrong.
I was very pleased that a lot of the dialogue was straight out of the book. That said, I was very displeased when two of the lines were cut short. I would have liked the ‘My teeth are swords’ speech to have been completed with ‘and my breath death’ and I think it would have added more impact to his threatening Lake Town to have included ‘They’ll remember who is the real King under the Mountain.’
I was disappointed that Smaug didn’t have jewels in his chest from laying on the treasure, I would have liked to see that visual. And I think it would have been more reasonable to have kept that as the origin of his weak spot, that a jewel didn’t stick there, than saying the special arrow hit him during his first attack but just dislodged one of his natural scales.
And then there was a ton of stuff with the dwarves and dragon that obviously never happened in the book, but I can totally understand it. You’re not going to make this incredible creature and then not make scenes to show it off.
I was confused by the Necromancer story. It went along fine at first, Sauron is returning, he’s making an army and all that, brings back the Nazgul, okay good, but then they threw in that he was the one sending Azog after Thorin and it just lost me. They kept saying how all the evil was connected, from the spiders to the orcs, even Smaug hinted that he at least knew what was going on, if not that he was involved himself. And I recall a line about Sauron’s focus being on the mountain now with Thorin returning. But I don’t get why. What does the mountain have to do with Sauron’s plot?
And of course I have to give my thoughts on the story’s main dissention. In the first movie it was Azog, in this one it’s Tauriel.
I don’t understand how she came to be. It’s one thing to go ‘I’d like to play around with what if Azog sticks around a while longer’ because at least he was already in the story, but it’s a completely different thing to decide ‘I think we need to invent an entirely new character that isn’t in the story or even remotely alluded to but completely made up from my imagination and put her in there.’ How and why would you even think that, much less do it?
That said, once accepting that she was there, I didn’t have a problem with her. She was a good character, and she didn’t affect the story in any way that wasn’t already destined from other changes. I’m not sure how plausible it is that she would fall for Killi like that, at least so quickly, but it fit in with the story.
So while I would have preferred her to not be there, since I can’t sanction the idea of creating an entirely new character in the story, if she had to be there I think it was done fine.
Like the first movie this one flew by while watching and never felt like it was dragging. The difference is that with the first, looking back toward the end and remembering everything that had happened, it didn’t feel like it took as long as it was. With this one, looking back I could tell this was a two hour and 40 minute movie, even though while actually watching it didn’t seem that long.
So I saw this today... I enjoyed it, but the entire time I was conscious of the fact I was thinking how this wasn't the Hobbit and I had no clue what was going to happen next, instead of eagerly anticipating each scene. For a movie: flawless. For The Hobbit: meh.
However, I was so caught off when it ended that I shrieked and shouted at the screen, and the FULL theatre began to laugh at me. We were in the back row of the floor section because we got there late, so everyone could see me jump and waggle my arms around like a cartoon character.
Love you always, SnC "A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?" -Albert Einstein
Ya killi and filli die at the end trying to protect thorin
Got to see this yesterday with my aunt from New York, quite fun.
Very good movie. You say you didn't know what was going to happen next? That's wrong. You have a general knowledge of what is going to come up next. Like a map though, you find some extra stuff on the way. I didn't really mind turiel after they actually got her in to the story and I had a general knowledge of why she was there. The gimli nod was great as well
bookworm wrote:@ Aeva:
I don’t think I understand what you were so upset about with Tauriel?
I was really upset about her little fling with Kili. As a warrior, she was awesome, and I enjoyed how she and Legolas interacted. A romantic relationship between an elf and a dwarf, however, would never happen, and Peter Jackson just went too far in trying to swing it. The relationship between Legolas and Gimli was special because it was an anomaly, and I feel like this silly romance is cheap compared to their relationship. The scene in the dungeon in which Kili and Tauriel are chatting about the rune stone and starlight was okay and even heart-warming, but then it just got ridiculous. The glowing, the athelas.... It was practically ripped from LotR, and it was too much for me.
On another note, I will be extremely angry if Thorin, Fili, and Kili don't die in the Battle of Five Armies. It will be tragic, but it still has to happen. Thorin is redeemed but pays the consequences for his greed, and the deaths of Fili and Kili need to happen while they're heroically defending him. (Actually, I think Kili and then Fili will die, and I kind of hope Thorin watches them go. That probably sounds slightly masochistic, but I need their deaths to be heartbreaking.)
Last edited by Aeva on Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.
But break my heart, for I must hold my tongue. --Hamlet. StrongNChrist ~ Remembered Forever Men who kill without reason cannot be reasoned with. --Stoic the Vast Let's go down together for one more chance. The skeletons are screaming for one last dance. --Hawthorne Heights Tell 'em turn it up 'til they can't no more. Let's get this thing shakin' like a disco ball. This is your last warning, a courtesy call. --TFK You have nice manners for a thief and a liar. --Smaug I know you mean well, but leave me be. Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free. --Elsa
Evangeline Lilly wrote:For the record, when I took this job, in 2011, I made one stipulation. That’s it. I just said… I swear to God, I said, ‘I will not do this film if you will not guarantee me one thing. You have to guarantee me there will be no love triangle.’ And there wasn’t. For the whole time I shot. For a year of shooting there was no love triangle...And then, I came back for reshoots in 2012 and they were like, ‘Well, we made a couple of alterations to some scenes and we added a couple more scenes,’ and all of a sudden manifested a love triangle before my very eyes and the film was shot and I’m in and there’s no getting out and there was no escaping it.
For the record I still haven't seen it, and it's not in my immediate plans to do so.
Fallacy of false continuum. // bookworm Any cupcake can be made holy through being baptized in the name of the Butter, the Vanilla and the Powdered Sugar. // Kait
("Ooh, look, I'm angry. That's new. I'm not really sure what's going to happen now.") I tried hard to justify it to myself right after I watched the film, but I had to give up on that lol. To compensate, I just pretend those scenes don't exist, and then everything's okay.
BUT I would really like to know what drugs they were on when they decided to invent a love triangle in the reshoots.
Last edited by Aeva on Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
But break my heart, for I must hold my tongue. --Hamlet. StrongNChrist ~ Remembered Forever Men who kill without reason cannot be reasoned with. --Stoic the Vast Let's go down together for one more chance. The skeletons are screaming for one last dance. --Hawthorne Heights Tell 'em turn it up 'til they can't no more. Let's get this thing shakin' like a disco ball. This is your last warning, a courtesy call. --TFK You have nice manners for a thief and a liar. --Smaug I know you mean well, but leave me be. Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free. --Elsa
Looks good! I do find the choice of song very odd, however, since it's really from Return of the King, isn't it? It's a great song, but to me it seems weird to reuse it for this trailer. Is it just me?
Catspaw wrote:I do find the choice of song very odd, however, since it's really from Return of the King, isn't it? It's a great song, but to me it seems weird to reuse it for this trailer. Is it just me?
It's because Peter Jackson forget he was making the Hobbit. He went on an ego boost and was all like, "I'm just going to make more Lord of the Rings except without Tolkien."
Basically, the trailer sums up all the reasons I've been extremely disappointed with the Hobbit movies. Bilbo himself is barely even in it. Even the fact that the name of the third film was changed is telling: it was originally going to be called There and Back Again, but they changed it to The Battle of the Five Armies. Because, you know, epic battles and stuff. That tells you pretty much what you need to know about Jackson's vision for the Hobbit movies.
Fallacy of false continuum. // bookworm Any cupcake can be made holy through being baptized in the name of the Butter, the Vanilla and the Powdered Sugar. // Kait
Jelly wrote:it was originally going to be called There and Back Again, but they changed it to The Battle of the Five Armies. Because, you know, epic battles and stuff. That tells you pretty much what you need to know about Jackson's vision for the Hobbit movies.
That was my original thought too, but I’ve changed my mind.
I was really sure the third subtitle would be There and Back Again, just as a personal guess, before it was confirmed. Then it was and I was like ‘Yes, nailed it!’ then I saw this and I was like ‘Huh?’ and found out it got changed.
After giving it some thought, I think it was actually a good move. Is There and Back Again actually a good movie title? I hadn’t given it any thought in that context, I just settled on it strictly from the book and said ‘That must be it.’ Battle of the Five Armies is actually a better choice, because that’s what this part is going to be about. They’re already there, so there’s no need to say that, and they’re only going back again at the very end.
If they had split the movie into two parts, then the right choices would be An Unexpected Journey and There and Back Again, because it would encompass what was going to happen in each, but because it’s thee movies, based on what is left to see, I agree with the new title.
And this was actually my second title choice. I thought ‘It’s most likely going to be There and Back Again, but it could also be Battle of Five Armies.’
Jelly wrote:Because, you know, epic battles and stuff.
The Battle of Five Armies is an epic battle.
Last edited by bookworm on Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bilbo doesn't get "There" until Thorin disowns him. And he most certainly never goes back again. We can also of course completely ignore A Hobbit's Tale, the other part of the title given the first two movies.
Last edited by Knight Fisher on Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To LGBT ToOers: The world is so much wider than your family and church. There are accepting people out there.
Fallacy of false continuum. // bookworm Any cupcake can be made holy through being baptized in the name of the Butter, the Vanilla and the Powdered Sugar. // Kait
Jelly wrote:It's because Peter Jackson forget he was making the Hobbit. He went on an ego boost and was all like, "I'm just going to make more Lord of the Rings except without Tolkien."
Yeah. The Kili/Tauriel romance came off as incredibly arrogant on Peter Jackson's part, at least from my perspective. A marriage between an elf and a human is extremely rare; any romantic relationship between a dwarf and elf is unthinkable.
The epic battles part didn't bother me quite as much. It's at least still somewhat related to Tolkien's world, if not in line with the Hobbit. Just as a viewer, though, The Desolation of Smaug seemed mainly like "Let's watch the dwarves and Bilbo almost die 100 times!"
The changes to the characters is also irritating. Thraudril might not be the most welcoming elf, or Thorin the most friendly dwarf, but they're not quite the hostile grudge holders they are in the movies.
While I don't mind the addition of Tauriel (or Legolas, for that matter), it was disappointing that they didn't stay behind in Mirkwood. It took the focus off of Bilbo and the dwarves, and resulted in more elvish superpower fighting.
Also, the Arkenstone "uniting" the dwarvish kingdoms? What? O.o That's like saying "I must recapture the Hope Diamond so that I can reunite the United States, England, Brazil, Andorra, Lesotho, New Zealand, and Singapore!" They're not meant to be reunited.
Then there's Beörn. No, he is not "the last of his kind." Thraudril and Celeborn gave the space between East Lorien and Thraudril's realm to someone, and Beörn couldn't have filled that entire woods by himself.
However, I did enjoy some parts of the Hobbit, like Bilbo climbing up the tree and looking out over Mirkwood, with the sun shining and the butterflies around him. That was one of my favorite parts of the book, and it was perfect in the movie. Smaug was also great, and it was nice for at least some focus to be on the dwarves, whereas we really only had Gimli before. The added parts weren't too bad, except for the romance and the distraction from the dwarvish party.
Regarding the title change, I quote from Peter Jackson's Facebook: "As Professor Tolkien intended, 'There and Back Again' encompasses Bilbo’s entire adventure, so don’t be surprised if you see it used on a future box-set of all three movies." On this one point, I completely agree with him and with bookworm. "There and Back Again" encompasses Bilbo's entire adventure, physically speaking, although not his emotional journey which I would agree is never resolved until he travels to Valinor at the end of Return of the King.
Anyway, I will fling whatever amount of money necessary at the nearest store to get my hands on that box set as soon as it is released.
But break my heart, for I must hold my tongue. --Hamlet. StrongNChrist ~ Remembered Forever Men who kill without reason cannot be reasoned with. --Stoic the Vast Let's go down together for one more chance. The skeletons are screaming for one last dance. --Hawthorne Heights Tell 'em turn it up 'til they can't no more. Let's get this thing shakin' like a disco ball. This is your last warning, a courtesy call. --TFK You have nice manners for a thief and a liar. --Smaug I know you mean well, but leave me be. Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free. --Elsa
We were in the back row of the floor section because we got there late, so everyone could see me jump and waggle my arms around like a cartoon character.
That probably sounds slightly masochistic, but I need their deaths to be heartbreaking.)
