Star Trek 2 (2013)

[Monty]

Well, first of all, my undying thanks to AE for maintaining the Motion Picture Archives so I didn't make a duplicate thread.

Now, to the movie. This was the first movie I have ever seen on opening night, and I regretted it afterward. (Not because the movie was bad or anything, but because my graduation was the next day and I was completely exhausted.)

Spoiler time!

Ok, so I was watching this with two friends, one of whom likes the new Star Trek movies, but has never seen the original, and one of whom has never seen anything in the Star Trek universe, and dubbed this movie a "nerd film".

With my passive-aggressive rant done, on to the movie itself.

First off, Benedict Cumberbatch was amazing. He is superb, and fantastic, and wonderful.

For someone who did so well with Lost, I would have expected more from J.J. Abrams as far as plot twists. As soon as Kirk died, it was blatantly obvious that he would be brought back to life via Khan's blood.

OK, the scene between Kirk and Spock when Kirk "dies" is the most awesome thing in the world for me as a fan of the original movies. There were so many parallels with The Wrath of Khan, yet it was stable enough to look like its own scene.

The special effects were quite well done. I saw the IMAX version of the film, and everything appeared splendidly. The different locations they used worked very well, from the planet with the volcano, to the center of the Enterprise, to the appearance of Earth itself.

As far as a story, I like that they are separating from the original series entirely. Remember, this is an alternate universe, so these new developments such as Spock's emotion are almost vital to the story. I loved seeing Leonard Nimoy reprise his role for a few short moments, and bringing back classic characters like Khan will help to continue keep this series alive.

Well, that's all the time we have today for Random Thoughts About Star Trek with Monty. Tune in next time to hear me sing a song in Klingon about Uhura and Spock's ill fated love!

[31899]

I saw it 17 May 2013, and who was correct about it having to do with the Botany Bay? I was disappointed because EVERYONE WOULD KNOW WHO KAHN WAS AND WHAT HE LOOKED LIKE. He was only one of the most important tyrants from the late twentieth century. No big deal (also, not to forget his mysterious disappearance, but presumed dead). There was also the neglect to mention that Section 31 is illegal. Overall, as a film, it was okay (ignoring the way too quick turn around of Khan, and the lack of explanation to the "average viewer" about the parallels to Star Trek: The Wrath of Kahn, and the lack of flat-headed Klingons [see "Cold Station 12," "Dr. Arik Soong," and the Star Trek Enterprise Episodes "Affliction" and "Divergence"]), as a Star Trek film, it really wasn't very good.

Edit: Although it was significantly better than what the trailer had prepared me for.

Edit: I would have liked for Kirk to be dead longer and Spock to be Captain for a while.

Edit: Also they once again misrepresented Vulcans.

[Knight Fisher]

Whether the movie was good depends on what you compare it to. If compared to the super hero movies that have come out lately, I'll take it. However, why on earth did we entrust the two biggest Sci Fi franchises into J J Abrams hands?

[The Top Crusader]

Whether the movie was good depends on what you compare it to. If compared to the super hero movies that have come out lately, I'll take it. However, why on earth did we entrust the two biggest Sci Fi franchises into J J Abrams hands?

Yeah... I don't have a problem with Abrams' work, but it seems odd to have him helming both.

As for this, still haven't seen it. Wanted to opening day, didn't work out, and still haven't gotten around to it. Hopefully will soon!

[31899]

I think Abrams will be better at Star Wars than he has been at Star Trek. I'm not entirely sure he or the writers understand Star Trek.

[Shennifer]

I saw Into Darkness yesterday with my dad and sister. It was really good, I think. Benedict Cumberbatch was brilliant, of course. (as was the supporting cast, but not as brilliant as him)

I also liked seeing the parallels between this movie and The Wrath of Khan. I want to see that movie again now....

[jasonjannajerryjohn]

I liked it right up until the extremely horrid ending. It was interesting, there was a very interesting moral dilemma. There were two villains, both of which were entirely menacing and definitely much more believable than the previous villain. Benedict Cumberbatch, especially, was absolutely brilliant as Kahn (yeah it's a spoiler, but everyone already knows it's supposed to be him). He was truly menacing in the part and had the sense that he wasn't all there in his lust for revenge. Despite not being Cuban. Unlike the last movie, which blew up two planets, idiotically, just for the sake of fake tension in a summer blockbuster, this movie actually did things for relatively good plot reasons. At least most of the time.

I really liked the push towards realism. Star Trek tended to look a bit too pristine and shall we say corny with the uniforms and the ships and the planets. Even TNG looked that way. DS9 did a fantastic job of trying to create a more realistic environment, however. DS9 is my favorite Star Trek show, I'll be honest about that. ;D The way many of the things looked in this movie looked kind of like how a future would look. The elevators, the conference rooms, the hospital, the city, the floating cars. I liked the design of the ship itself, sort of like a submarine in space. I particularly liked the part where the ship was falling and they were having to walk around on the ceiling and the sides, jumping over entrances to corridors. I think that was pulled off very well visually.

The ending, thus spoilers, was horrible. To even attempt to do what they did, try to do the ending from Star Trek 2, requires exact precision. You have to know exactly what you're doing or you're going to screw it all up. Which they did, they really did. To attempt the death scene from that movie in reverse with Kirk and Spock was horrible. I don't know if there was a way they could even make it work at all where it wasn't painfully awkward.

The reason why that ending worked in Star Trek 2 was because of Kirk. He always felt like he was in control of everything, the king of the universe and here's a situation he can't control, his best friend dying. In that movie they film Kirk's reaction more than Spock's, which works because of that. In this movie, that dynamic is not really there. There really hasn't been any establishment of a best friendship relationship between the two. They want their bromance without working to establish it. So there is no emotional connection for us, the viewers, to the scene.

Spock shouting KAHN after the death was just the most awkward thing ever. I burst out laughing for a good three minutes after that because it was just so awkward. Shouting KAHN has become a big joke at this point, so the fact that they even had the audacity to add that into the script is absolutely hilarious. If you had any emotional connection at all with the death, it was positively ruined by that shout. Listen, guys, you don't need to try to make your movie Star Trek 2. I know you think you do since you're the second movie of the reboot, but trust me, it's not going to work.

Than there's the tribble. Guys, I know you're trying to do a fanservice moment, but come on. Tribbles? Of all the things to use for fan service. It's kind of hilarious. And please guys, make your Chekov's Guns a little less obvious. As soon as we saw the scene where McCoy was examining the tribble and brought it back to life with Kahn's DNA, we knew that someone was going to die and we were going to bring them back to life with Kahn's DNA. Please. Another reason we couldn't connect to the death scene. My friend sitting next to me in the theatre, as soon as Kirk went into the radiation chamber, was nudging me and saying "Chekov's Tribble Chekov's Tribble!" And that's another thing. You're attempting to do the ending of Star Trek 2, but you remember in that scene, Spock actually dies and they have another movie entirely to bring him back, and he's still not fully recovered in the next movie. In this movie, magic tribble DNA and poof he's fine. Like he was never dead.

The part where Spock was running through the streets was rather stupid as well. They build and build this guy as this super powerful super mutant, Kahn for goodness sake, but he's taken out by Spock's neck pinch and Uhura with a gun on stun. I thought they might have built this up to have another movie. It would have worked with another movie where he got away or went into hiding somewhere on Earth. That he's such an epic villain that he needs a second movie. But nope, back in the freezer, we're off on our five year mission yay! Stupid. That epilogue was rather stupid too, I must say. Unless they're going to do a tv show, which they probably aren't, it was not needed. They probably don't want to do a tv series because they want to ease people back into Star Trek easily, and not alienate anyone who doesn't want to sit down and watch a tv show every week.

tl;dr: It was really great up until the idiotic last 15 minutes.

[The Top Crusader]

Haha, yeah, I finally saw it yesterday, and JJJJ pretty well sums it up. I'm not as big a Star Trek fan so the end didn't bother me *as* much, but it was dumb. "KAAAAAAAHHHHN!!!!" is such a joke by now that I can understand them wanting to slip it in, but it should have been in a different part with Scotty or something and clearly be for comic relief. Putting it where they did in the way they did was a bad idea.

[jasonjannajerryjohn]

I got the impression they didn't even realize that it's a joke at this point, that they only used it to make themselves be like Star Trek 2 and genuinely thought it was appropriate to use it after the death scene. That's what it felt like, since the tone was not one of joking at all. Which makes them look like even more massive idiots.

[31899]

Did it bother no one else that the Eugenics War was barely mentioned?

[jasonjannajerryjohn]

At the time, no, cause I didn't think of it. But now that you mention it, no, since it might be too complex for J.J. Abrams and friends to think about.

Holy poop, I've become the type of judgmental old series fan that annoys me in Doctor Who. >_>

[bookworm]

I saw this last night because a friend wanted to take me for my birthday. I thought it was quite good. Which was surprising, after reading all the negativity. (Not just here, but several other places.)
Now I must say, I don’t know too much about Star Trek. That is, I like to think I know enough to get by, just through information absorbed as common knowledge, but as far as actual viewing I’ve only seen a handful of episodes of the old show, and part of one of the old movies. I mean to get into the series sometime, but haven’t had a chance yet.
That taken into consideration, I must assume that the reason I am in the minority that liked it is because I missed some ‘insider’ thing that made it bad? Can someone please enlighten me?

[Danielle Abigail Maxwell]

I saw this last night because a friend wanted to take me for my birthday. I thought it was quite good. Which was surprising, after reading all the negativity. (Not just here, but several other places.)
Now I must say, I don’t know too much about Star Trek. That is, I like to think I know enough to get by, just through information absorbed as common knowledge, but as far as actual viewing I’ve only seen a handful of episodes of the old show, and part of one of the old movies. I mean to get into the series sometime, but haven’t had a chance yet.
That taken into consideration, I must assume that the reason I am in the minority that liked it is because I missed some ‘insider’ thing that made it bad? Can someone please enlighten me?

I liked it. More like loved it. I've seen it 7 times, and am going for my 8th on Monday. It's really captivating for me, and I've seen... of course, the 2009 movie, and about half of the Original series, and all of Enterprise. (I'm a bit weary of William Shatner, and can't seem to involve myself in the rest of the franchise, but man, I feel like a trekkie )

There were two things people got extremely mad about:

1. Khan being WHITE (of no fault at all to Benedict Cumberbatch. The only excuse the team gives to the fact Khan was white is because in this society, a person of color playing a terrorist - especially like that - would look... let's just say, a lot of society blames ALL muslims for being terrorists. We judge people by their skin color. Society is messed up. And I kind of agree on the fact, yes, they totally messed up the skin color, but the fundamentals of the character are still there - even if I hated the fact they used Khan in the first place! I saw it the first time and went "Oh no you did NOT JUST SAY KHAN! " I was disappointed.

That being said - the movie had its own feel to it.

2. Alice Eve - Dr. Carol Marcus - being naked for a few seconds. It was pointless, I agree, but um... if you pay attention to when Kirk is hanging out with the two cat ladies, you can see... more then what you would want to. Oh, and while it didn't make it into the final cut, there was a shirtless shower scene for Khan (Cumberbatch), which, once that was released on TV by JJ Abrams himself, every fangirl got mad it WASN'T in the movie. I personally would have liked all three scenes to have been marked "pointless" and been rid of it. But... of course not. This is society. Plus, it is a blockbuster movie - and... in reality, it wasn't even the team's fault. It was what Paramount dictated must be in the movie. They get final say.

That's the two biggest problems people have pointed out.

As for "copying" TWOK - I felt it didn't do that. It just... it didn't. It had it's own path. This is a new universe - an alternate one. There is so much that can happen that may have ALSO occurred in the original timeline. And it is allowed to. I have yet to see ANYONE, other then on this site, even speak ill of the death scene in Into Darkness. Here's what I believe, as I basically had an emotional breakdown the first time I saw this movie:

It wasn’t wrong to do that scene. The circumstances brought it on. It was the same as if Spock had done it - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. Kirk had an undying love for his ship - a trait that came from the original series. One that continued on in this universe. Kirk cannot stand to lose even one person on his crew. His family is his crew, his ship. He definitely, without a doubt, would have fixed that warp core by hand because it was going to save his crew and his ship. And that is exactly what mattered to him. And he did it. And he gave his life for them. No regrets.

He is still Kirk, even in the reboot. Spock is still Spock. He has those traits. Just because the tables were turned does not mean they lose their fundamental basics of their character. Spock has a deeper emotion set that has been rocked - by the death of his planet, the death of his mother, and then the death of Pike and… To watch someone you desire to know so much more about, someone you find your better half, someone you call FRIEND, to watch him DIE when you have had so little time - he is still Spock. It hurts worse because they didn’t get years together. They had about… One year, one and a half, maybe even a quarter of a year, together. And then to have Kirk die, alone, scared, unable to touch, unable to be distracted from the fear…

They are still fundamentally their characters originally created and given life to from Shatner and Nimoy. Cross my heart. And I don’t think any one better then Pine and Quinto could be doing two of the most iconic characters.

I think it comes a lot from understanding the first movie - of how the timeline has been changed and how different the characters are, but are still fundamentally themselves. We don't know a lot of how their experiences have shaped them up to the majority of the first movie: we can garner that Kirk's home life was poor from the way his stepfather reacts, and the fact his mother was never around. He obviously loved a fight - the bar fight seemed to be a common occurrence. He is brilliant - a genius. But he's a lot more trouble now. And immature. Still growing. Spock: well, he seemed the same up until his planet was destroyed. And that comes up in the sequel - the fear, the pain, the confusion - the ANGER he felt that his mother was dead, his planet GONE. His emotions on his half-human side are much more imbalanced and confusing to him. Something I believe really helped lead to him basically having a major emotional freak out over Kirk's death and going after Khan. In his mind, he believed it was all Khan's fault - if Khan had not been around in the first place, they would never have gone after him, never have gotten stranded in enemy space; nothing would have lead to Kirk going into that Warp Core. Marcus was already dead - Spock had revenge out for someone - and Khan was the likely target. Was that revenge justified? Maybe. Maybe not.

"There will always be those who mean to do us harm. To stop them, we risk awakening the same evil within ourselves. Our first instinct is to seek revenge when those we love are taken from us. But that’s not who we are." (Kirk speaking at the end of Into Darkness)

Spock and Kirk in the Original Timeline had had YEARS. YEARS! Before TWOK. Spock and Kirk in the new timeline? Little. And they spent the WHOLE two movies trying to figure each other out, second guessing each other, fighting, frustrated.

"I want you to know why I couldn't let you die... why I went back for you..."
"Because you are my friend."

Oh, and BTW: new timeline!Spock actually takes ownership of this friendship. The original line "I am, and shall always be, your friend" - Spock always had a tiny bit of a distance with that line.

Which is why the reversal of characters makes the scene worse for me. So much worse.

I guess: take it or leave it. That's all I can say.

[Aeva]

I'm bumping this topic for the sole purpose of gushing about Khan.

Seriously people, Benedict Cumberbatch is sooo sexy. I love me some conflicted villains; I'd volunteer to hunt him down any day of the week.

Can we talk about those mesmerizing blue eyes?


For the record, I did enjoy the rest of the film as well lol. Pavel is adorable, Scottie is hilarious, and Spock just needs a hug. I also think the space jump scene with Kirk and Khan is brilliant.