Oz the Great and Powerful

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Whitty Whit
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Post by Whitty Whit »

bookworm. I think you're dead-on with your theory on in the spoiler.

I want to see it. But as usual, I have no clue where any theater is near me, so I'm not going to be watching this until it hits DVDs.

Pretty much the only way they can "ruin" this is if there's bad acting, bad plot, and/or too many objectionable contents for me, which I highly doubt because as people have said, the makers must surely know that families are going to want to see this too.

lol @ JP about The Wizard of Oz. Eh, it's not my favorite movie, but everybody HAS to hear Over the Rainbow by Judy Garland at some point in their lives.
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Post by bookworm »

I’ve been thinking about possible plots more, and while I still think there’s a good chance my original thoughts are on the right track, something else is bothering me now.
There’s one important detail about the original movie that I somehow completely overlooked.
It was a dream!
With that in mind, I’m back to being confused and intrigued about what this story will be.
Since Oz is all in Dorothy’s imagination, there can’t be backstory to it. So what in the world is this?
I think most likely this isn’t meant to be thought about that deeply, it’s just meant to be accepted, and I’m fine with that. For all I care this can just be fanfiction like Wicked and not intended to officially be recognized. I’d accept that and I’d still be as excited about it. Even if the story isn’t ‘real’ I’m still all for adding to this classic world. So it’s not going to be a big issue for me one way or the other, but when I first realized that it threw me for a loop.

Another possibility I thought of is that this movie too is a dream. We don’t see him actually going to Oz in the trailer, we see him being sucked into a tornado, like Dorothy was, and then all of a sudden he’s there. He could have hit his head on the basket and be dreaming as she was. That would take care of the backstory issue because this wouldn’t be backstory for the original, it would be a separate story. I think this is most likely what’s going to happen, because it all fits. He has his own dream about whatever lesson he needs to learn, Dorothy had hers about what she needed to learn.
At first I thought there was still a conflict because the Wizard is in her dream so that would mean there was still some kind of impossible crossover going on, but actually there isn’t. He is in her dream because she met him before the storm. She didn’t project any of this backstory that she can’t have known about, I only assumed she did because I was thinking about it as a composite, rather than separate occurrences. But really, she only knows about the old man Wizard, and that’s who she dreamed about. All this new stuff is only in the young Wizard’s mind and not intended or implied to carry over to Dorothy’s dream however many years later.
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EvangelineWalker
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Post by EvangelineWalker »

In the book (if I remember right) it WAS real. I'd rather believe that anyway.
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Post by Laura Ingalls »

Yes, it wasn't made out to be a dream in the books. :D
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Post by bookworm »

Ah, I didn’t know that. Interesting. But still, it was in the movie and that’s what they’re building off, so the crossover conundrum still stands.

Watching the movie last night I took notice of a line that, until now, I had never thought twice about before.
When the Wizard first meets the group he says “I am Oz, the Great and Powerful.”
It gave me shivers of anticipation. I can’t recall ever being quite this excited and just genuinely intrigued about an upcoming movie before. I’m really looking forward to the weekend! (Partyin’ partyin’ yeah!)
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Post by Woody »

I saw it on Tuesday! \:D/

It was really good.

My favorite line:
Glinda: It's okay, all good and noble souls get to pass through.

Oz: I'M GONNA DIE!
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Post by bookworm »

Wow, I have so much to say about this movie. I wish I had brought a notepad, I had so many thoughts while watching that I know I’m going to forget some, but I’ll mention what I can remember and post again later if more come to me.
I have to be honest, I wasn’t sold on this movie for a long time. Almost until the end. But when it finally did catch me it caught me good, and my end reaction was that it was a really good film that I really enjoyed. More on that later.

It is my belief that this movie is not meant to be an actual prequel to the original, but is a form of fan fiction not meant to officially fit into Oz canon, books or movie. It’s just a sort of fun ‘what if’ kind of thing. That’s how I understood it anyway. The film itself was somewhat ambiguous in that respect as the end of the movie doesn’t really show the end of the story.
It could be that this was meant to be that separate dream situation that I explained before, and it just didn’t show the waking up part. That could be somewhat hinted at by the fact that this mirrored the original movie by having the characters he met be representations of his real life acquaintances.
Or it could be that they didn’t show the end because this was meant to be real, with him returning home later with Dorothy as the ultimate ending. But that leads to the previously discussed crossover problems, with the original movie being a dream and all that.
So I will categorize this as an unofficial and unconnected story, because it is easiest to explain in my mind that way.

With that as my view of the movie, I will go over some specific notes.

Literally only a few seconds into the movie, my anticipation was paid off. In a weird way, because it wasn’t anything big, in fact it was quite small, but I thought it was really neat. During the opening credits, on the shot of the music box, the shadow of the female figure transforms into the Wicked Witch as it turns, complete with broomstick. I thought that was so cool.

I didn’t really like the various nods to the original movie. (And with this not being a real prequel, that’s all they were; fun nods as opposed to actual backstory. For example, the cameo of the Cowardly Lion. If this were a prequel, that would be the character’s backstory. That the Wizard scaring him was what first frightened him, and it got worse between films leading to the condition we find him in in the next one. But because this is just a for fun story, that was just a for fun reference that was thrown in, not an actual origin.)
So like I said, I didn’t like them. I mean I liked that they were there, but I didn’t like how some of them were done. Using the same example of the Lion, I didn’t like that the Wizard was the one that made him a coward. It didn’t seem right. Though that gives an interesting aspect to the original film, in that the Wizard ends up giving him back the courage he originally took from him. But still, that felt strange and sad. But since it was just a nod and not real backstory like I said, I guess it’s okay.

I also didn’t like the cameo of Dorothy’s mom (who I first thought was Aunt Em). It was kind of neat to throw her in there, but it didn’t seem right that she had a connection to the Wizard.

One nod I did like very much though was the line about being a good man. I loved that just as much in context as I had in the trailer.

I caught something that may or may not have been an intentional reference to the original film. When his magic performance goes wrong he is almost forced to admit he is a fraud, then berates his assistant for not closing the curtain to avoid the confrontation. It struck me that this could be seen as foreshadowing of when he is later pretending to be the mighty Wizard and once more uses a curtain to hide from his audience and attempt to avoid revealing his true nature. Just a thought.

It took me a while to realize the significance of the rainbow that was shown when he enters Oz. I originally thought it was just there to emphasize the beauty of the colors, since we had just made the transition from black and white, but I finally realized no, it’s there because the Land of Oz is over the rainbow. How slow of me.

I can’t believe he didn’t say ‘I don’t think I’m in Kansas anymore’ when he saw those kooky flowers; I was waiting for that!

I didn’t like Theodora’s wardrobe. The clothes of Oz are usually fancily outlandish, but hers seemed like something you could see someone wearing back in the real world.

Seeing the origin of the Wicked Witches was interesting. It was sad that Theodora became one of them, but her transformation and the reason for it were fascinating. The origin of the broomstick was great, and learning the source of the phrase ‘My pretty’ was awesome, and chilling.

Theodora’s burning tears were an incredible detail to include, very neat. (A foreshadowing of her vulnerability to water.)

Something that was different than the original movie was the poppy field. It’s not actually deadly on it’s own, it was just after the Wicked Witch poisoned it. But since, again, this isn’t a real prequel I guess changes like that are alright. And it became a plot device later on, in the battle, so they kind of needed it to be that way.

The origin of the ‘gifts from the Wizard’ was moving and a great detail.

The Munchkin song was introduced very well. I knew this most likely wasn’t going to be a musical like the original, but there had to be at least one song in it somewhere.

That’s all I can remember at the moment, but I know I had a lot more. I’ll post again if more comes back to me.

Like I said before, it took quite a while for me to get into this movie. Stuff kept going on, but it seemed like nothing much was happening. It wasn’t that I didn’t like it, and I wasn’t bored, I just felt unsatisfied. I think a main part of it was because I was trying to figure out how this was supposed to fit in, if at all, to Oz canon so before I could react to what I was seeing I had to figure out its context first. As it kept going on and I could tell it was getting ready to wrap up I was concerned that my feeling wouldn’t change before it was over, which would have been very disappointing after how much I had anticipated this.

Another thing that hindered my immediate enjoyment was that the mood of the film felt uncomfortably balanced. It seemed like they wanted to tell a darker story, which they had to to some extent due to the plot, but at the same time they didn’t want it to be too dark, probably because they knew there would be kids watching, so they held themselves back pretty firmly. I don’t think the end result worked out. They should have picked a side and either let themselves go full on dark, or scaled back the dark parts to a point where they didn’t need to hold themselves back. The give and take they ended up with was awkward.
I read later that they did indeed edit some scenes in postproduction to keep the movie PG, so that confirms these thoughts. This was clearly a movie that was originally much darker and more intense, and then attempted to be scaled back. The process hit some glitches in places, because you can tell. You watch it and think ‘There feels like there should be more to this’, and that’s because there was.

But fortunately all that changed, completely, at the film’s climax.
When the balloon started floating away I first thought he was really leaving. Because I was still trying to figure out how they were going to resolve this. So I thought maybe it was going to be a very depressing end, with him just leaving them and going back. But then when it crashed I obviously knew he hadn’t been in it, and my next thought was what ended up being correct; he did that as a distraction, knowing everyone would believe he had really been leaving because of his character.

It went even farther than that though, and that was what sold me. He needed them to think he had died so he could become the floating head, now the All Powerful Oz. That was such a perfect way to bring everything together that it caused me to forget and forgive the feelings from the rest of the movie. When the scene got to the fireworks part I was completely satisfied, my anticipation had been confirmed and rewarded. I sat there thinking ‘Yes, this is the movie I hoped it would be.’

The departure of Theodora, now the Wicked Witch of the West, was sad. I liked that the Wizard gave her an offer to return, but I knew she wouldn’t take it. Obviously, because she’s the villain in the next movie. But beyond that, it was because although she may have not been originally turned evil of her own full will, she remained evil by choice and strengthened that evil by begrudging what she thought to be his betrayal of her. She said it just before she took off: “I hate you!” She originally loved him, and thought they would rule together. But after she turned wicked it was her mission to destroy him. She not only failed to do that, she actually made him more powerful than ever. She knows that now he will indeed rule, but not with her. It’s more than she can stand.
That, I think, is why there was a difference in the level of wickedness between the Wicked Witches. Because it was bothering me. Evanora told Theodora that once she bit the apple she would be complete evil. She had already bitten it, so she was already that complete evil. But once they were both evil, there was clearly a difference. Evanora was evil, but Theodora was super evil. How could there be that difference if they were both complete evil? I think it was because Theodora had the added emotion of feeling betrayed, and that added to her darkness. Evanora was evil to be evil, but Theodora was evil to cause evil, for revenge.

I thought the final battle between Glinda and Evanora was unnecessary. It seemed to just be thrown in to draw out the good vs. evil confrontations of the moment, and do some special effects dazzling. I suppose if you want to justify it you could say it was so Evanora’s enchantment would be broken and reveal her true appearance, thus conforming with the line from the original movie “Only bad witches are ugly.”

I liked that this movie echoed the original in ending with the Wizard giving out gifts. It was at once both a look back to that comment by the china girl, showing that he took it to heart, and a look forward, indicating that he would continue that legacy.
On a similar note this film also echoed the original in having his companions in Oz be his acquaintances in Kansas. And like Dorothy, interacting with them here allowed him to appreciate them there. The monkey was his assistant from the fair, and he became able to offer him his friendship which his old self had not been able to do. Glinda was Dorothy’s mom, his old girlfriend. While there he had made mistakes in the relationship, here he was able to foster it. And the china girl was that girl in the wheelchair at his magic show. She had asked him to make her walk, which he couldn’t do so he ran. But here he didn’t run. He still couldn’t give her what she really wanted, this time her family, but he did the best he could, providing her with a new one. And as an added parallel, he did make her walk here by gluing her leg, symbolizing his desire to no longer run from the difficult but take it on and now try to do the impossible, now that his heart has been touched and changed.

The dialogue at the end between Glinda and the Wizard was perfect. (“I knew you had it in you all along.” “Greatness?” “No, goodness.”) It referenced all the way back to the beginning of the movie, showing him that he was wrong in his assessment of which was better to be, and showed him he could be both.

I was disappointed that the ruby slippers didn’t play into anything, or even get mentioned. Since, again, this isn’t a real prequel they didn’t have to, but they were tossing in so many other references I was shocked they didn’t include the most iconic.
I later read that this was due to copyright issues, so they didn’t really have anything they could do, but I think they could have come up with something that would be allowed.

The ultimate ending of the movie was good and satisfying, but somewhat confusing. It seems straightforward enough; they outfit the throne room with the equipment for if, as he says himself, “anyone wants to see the Wizard” indicating that he’s going to be a good ruler, but fast forward to Dorothy and suddenly “No one sees the Great Oz!” I wonder what happened. My theory was incorrect it seems, so we still have no idea. But, once again, since it’s not an actual prequel I guess it doesn’t matter that it doesn’t completely match up. It still makes you think though.

So, if treating this movie as a fun story that’s not meant to actually fit in anywhere, just a sort of ‘bonus’ tale of the possible ‘history’ just for fun for fans of the world, I would say it was well done and enjoyable. It took a while to sell me, but in hindsight I think it was great and I know it will be 100% better after a second viewing.
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Post by American Eagle »

I went to the theater on Tuesday afternoon to watch this with some co-workers (specifically, four females :anxious:). The movie was interesting and a good show, but I think I enjoyed the hangout time and popcorn more. \:D/
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Post by bookworm »

This is interesting. Apparently the whole cast has been signed on for a sequel.
Perhaps that’s why this one ended without really ending, it’s meant to be a two part story.

And on a tangent, what do you call a prequel sequel?
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Post by Samantha14 »

The people who own the 'ruby reds' had rights and wouldn't allow them to use them in the movie. Period. So that's why.
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Post by bookworm »

I know, I said that. But I’m sure they could have found some workaround that would have been allowed (play on words, indirect reference, etc) if they had put their minds to it.
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Post by Samantha14 »

Oh. *Facepalm* Completely missed you saying that..my bad... :-
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Post by bookworm »

That’s alright, I said a lot. I’m sure it was easy to miss.
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