The Lone Ranger

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Re: The Lone Ranger

Postby jelly » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:46 pm

Heaven forbid. :o

..are you not 18?
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Re: The Lone Ranger

Postby Margaret Thatcher » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:56 pm

I am allowed to watch some PG-13 movies but because this one has some sexually suggestive things and some profanity I'm not watching it.
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Re: The Lone Ranger

Postby The Top Crusader » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:59 pm

My theater cut out the sexual parts I think. >_>
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Re: The Lone Ranger

Postby Termite » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:11 pm

It's the nearly shirtless Injun, Top. :noway:


I haven't seen this yet, so I'll probably just wait until it comes out on DVD and pirate it online... my dad enjoyed it, however, and he knows all the original LR stuff, so I'm sold. \:D/
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Re: The Lone Ranger

Postby bookworm » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:14 pm

Yeah, from what I hear it’s only the critics giving negative feedback, the actual audiences like it. Which makes me extra angry our theater bailed, if that was indeed the cause.
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Re: The Lone Ranger

Postby jelly » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:53 pm

bookworm wrote:Yeah, from what I hear it’s only the critics giving negative feedback, the actual audiences like it. Which makes me extra angry our theater bailed, if that was indeed the cause.

This is silly. The 'critics' are just as much of an 'actual audience' as anyone else. Some of them just get paid to write about the films they watch. Generally, the critics are people who also take movies more seriously than most other people.. so when the general consensus is negative, it probably means another heap of shallow entertainment and that only the least demanding audiences will enjoy.

I haven't seen The Lone Ranger yet, though. :(
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Re: The Lone Ranger

Postby bookworm » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:15 pm

Jelly wrote:
bookworm wrote:Yeah, from what I hear it’s only the critics giving negative feedback, the actual audiences like it. Which makes me extra angry our theater bailed, if that was indeed the cause.
This is silly. The 'critics' are just as much of an 'actual audience' as anyone else. Some of them just get paid to write about the films they watch. Generally, the critics are people who also take movies more seriously than most other people.. so when the general consensus is negative, it probably means another heap of shallow entertainment and that only the least demanding audiences will enjoy.
That is silly. Critics may have more ‘refined’ movie tastes (though that is debatable) but when the consensus from official critics is negative, yet the consensus from ‘regular’ people is positive, it is clear who the real audience is. There are more ‘casual’ viewers than critics, and if they like the movie that’s what matters. You can say ‘they just like it because they don’t know what’s good’ but that doesn’t matter, the point is they like it whatever their reason.
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Re: The Lone Ranger

Postby jelly » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:44 pm

bookworm wrote:Critics may have more ‘refined’ movie tastes (though that is debatable)

Sounds like someone gets agitated when they don't like what the critics have to say. ;)

Having a more 'refined' taste only comes from watching more films - and having a broader appreciation of film - than most other people. If someone with a more 'refined' taste in film doesn't like a certain movie that his friends did, it might be because he's already seen two of three other movies that utilize the same plot events or themes, and is therefore able to recognize the clichés that others might miss. It might be because he's seen more of what film is capable of offering, and is sooner disappointed when a movie isn't as great as it could have been. Having a more refined taste in anything is just the natural result of experiencing a wider variety, and being able to discern the better from the worse. I might be happy with my cheap burger and fries until I sit down at an expensive diner and devour an excellent meal, and all of the sudden the fast food looks like garbage by comparison. It's the process of maturing.

bookworm wrote:There are more ‘casual’ viewers than critics, and if they like the movie that’s what matters.

You sound like a Hollywood executive. I guess we can justify Transformers 5, 6 and 7 now. \:D/
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Re: The Lone Ranger

Postby Musical Shutterbug » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:01 pm

Jelly wrote:I haven't seen The Lone Ranger yet, though. :(


Don't waste your money seeing it in theatres. It's not worth a full ticket price ;) Just wait until it comes out on DVD.
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Re: The Lone Ranger

Postby bookworm » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:46 pm

Jelly wrote:
bookworm wrote:Critics may have more ‘refined’ movie tastes (though that is debatable)
Sounds like someone gets agitated when they don't like what the critics have to say. ;)
Not at all, I’m more than welcome to what anyone has to say. What agitates me is when they don’t just say it, they declare it as if it’s the only correct opinion. And the rest of your post shows the exact same mindset. 'The critics are more knowledgeable so they are the ones that really know what’s good. If anyone, Heaven forbid, enjoys a critically panned movie it’s because those poor souls are too stupid to know it’s not good.' Is it possible they just have different tastes that cause them to personally like the movie? 'No, absolutely not, they’re just mindless screen watchers.' It’s an attitude that is sickeningly arrogant, yet extremely pervasive.

There occasionally comes a movie, such as this, where there is a clear and complete disagreement between the response of professional critics and the response of regular moviegoers. The critics all agree the movie is bad, yet the audience responds favorably. In these situations one side has to be, if not wrong, at least ‘less right’ and my bet for the correct side would be the one with more people on it: the ‘casual’ watcher, the ‘less refined’ viewer, the ‘regular’ person, whatever you want to label them.

Professional critics tend to believe they have some perspective that is better and greater than the common person, and therefore their personal opinion on a movie is the definitive response that movie should get, there can be no other. If a professional critic says the movie stinks then darn it that’s a bad movie! So what if the layman audience response is 90% positive; they don’t know enough to have a valid opinion!
Clearly, this is wrong. There is no definitive label for any movie, it depends on each and every viewer. A critic has no more authority to declare a movie bad than a casual watcher does to declare it good, they can each only declare their personal take on it. True professional critics are more knowledgeable in ways of analyzing characters and story, and this gives them the ability to provide a more authoritative insight into how well or poorly done a movie is, but they cannot definitively declare for every viewer in the world ‘This is a bad movie.’

A recent case where this came up was with the new Oz movie. Critics pretty universally agreed it was terrible. I strongly disagree. It certainly isn’t one of the greatest movies ever, but it was far from terrible, and I would emphatically insist it wasn’t even bad. One particular complaint I came across in several reviews was that the Wizard’s character (his inner character, not the character of the Wizard, if you know what I mean) didn’t have a sufficient change through the movie, he didn’t develop or some such critic lingo. I was shocked to see this repeated again and again, because it’s not true! And I, an uninformed causal movie watcher, could see it!
His character in fact undergoes significant changes through the story of the movie, influenced by the various other characters he interacts with. See my review for a runthrough, especially the part about the china girl’s leg. When I had that realization, I immediately had two thoughts. One, I was extremely proud of myself, because that was one of the few times I felt like I delved into ‘deep’ analysis of a movie. Two, shock that if I of all people picked up on that, the people whose job it is to catch these symbolisms passed right over it!

Long short: Critics can be wrong. Their ‘professional’ opinions on movies need to be treated as just that: opinions. More informed opinions than the average viewer, perhaps, but that doesn’t give them any infallible authority on what’s good and what isn’t; that decision is up to each individual.

Application to this particular movie and why it upset me:
It’s ridiculous to let the critical response cause you to give up on a movie, if that is indeed what happened here, when the response from the viewing public has been just as overwhelmingly positive as the ‘professionals’ have been overwhelmingly negative. The majority of the audience likes it, don’t overlook that and take the minority’s side as conclusive just because they’re believed to have ‘superior’ understanding that lets them have the ‘right’ response.

Edit:

Jelly wrote:If someone with a more 'refined' taste in film doesn't like a certain movie that his friends did, it might be because he's already seen two of three other movies that utilize the same plot events or themes, and is therefore able to recognize the clichés that others might miss. It might be because he's seen more of what film is capable of offering, and is sooner disappointed when a movie isn't as great as it could have been.
Jelly wrote:It's the process of maturing.
Absolutely! I’m not disagreeing with this at all. It’s great if someone is personally able to get a deeper analysis of a movie through their experience and maturity. Good for them! But that doesn’t mean the movie itself it universally bad, only that, as you said, it could have been better, and certain people realize that. They come away personally unsatisfied, and that is their prerogative. But the less mature doesn’t have the baggage or enlightenment, depending on how you want to view it, that gives them that ‘deeper’ response, and so they are capable of enjoying it. And good for them too! It’s not a flaw to be less mature, again as you say, it’s the result of less exposure than their more refined friends.

So the critic can say ‘This was bad’ and be correct, and the layman can say ‘This was good’ and also be correct - because they each leave unspoken the last part of their sentence: ‘for me.’
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Re: The Lone Ranger

Postby Termite » Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:08 pm

Jelly, my dad enjoyed it, and I bet you anything he's older than most of the critics out there, being almost sixty... thus having seen and being knowledgeable about more movies than they, and being raised in the era when you watched all the old movies as well as the new. ;) As I said, he knows all the original LR and he enjoyed it. It comes down to personal opinion; critics are just given the task of their opinion being the one typed and printed.

I tend to ignore reviews aside from content and make the decision for myself whether or not the movie is good. \:D/
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Re: The Lone Ranger

Postby bookworm » Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:58 pm

Termite wrote:I tend to ignore reviews aside from content and make the decision for myself whether or not the movie is good. \:D/
As do I Termite; and I will get that chance here after all! My theater suddenly put this back up! Other people must have been as upset as I was and complained they dropped it. My group is excited, our plans are back on. \:D/
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