Michael Jackson

Termite · Post by **Termite** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:08 pm

American Eagle wrote:I can't believe how much the guy is worshiped, even by Christians! People in this forum say they've cried about the man's death several times, yet Jesus' death, who is our living Savior, is not worth the tears. We live in such a godless world.

Aaaaaand, you know for a fact they've never cried?

Iron and Light · Post by **Iron and Light** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:10 pm

American Eagle wrote:
Tyler wrote:
American Eagle wrote:I can't believe how much the guy is worshiped, even by Christians! People in this forum say they've cried about the man's death several times, yet Jesus' death, who is our living Savior, is not worth the tears. We live in such a godless world.
Why should anyone cry about Jesus' death? He came back. $\:D/$
Okay then... why would anyone cry over MJ's death? He's in Hell?

Umm.. exactly? The possibility that he's in Hell for all eternity (more than likely is if the latest news is just a rumor), and the horribly tragic life that people put him through here on earth is just too much for me to bear dry-eyed.

Jesus rose from the dead. There's nothing to cry about there. But even having said that, please don't be so prideful as to think that you know for certain that no one on this forum has ever cried about the Lord's death. You're wrong. I know that I myself have, even though I know it's not sad and I shouldn't cry about it. The Passion nearly renders me hysterical when I see what our Lord did for us.

I agree with you, Trinarius. If this is just a lie made up by random Christians to give us false hope, I'm going to be rather angry. I believe there was a rumor that Steve Irwin (another celebrity whose death really upset me- my family and I watched literally every show he did) had accepted Jesus right before his death, and it turned out to be a lie. I really hope that's not the case with this 'news'. Mary Mar, being a Christian group, probably wouldn't lie, but who knows if they're even the ones releasing the news, and who knows if they got it first or second-hand.

In any event.... the old saying 'ignorance is bliss' really applies here. I think I'd rather remain ignorant if this turns out to be a farce, and continue to think that he's in Heaven. After all, there are no tears in Heaven, so if he did go to Hell, when I get to Heaven, I won't remember him, anyway.

Trinarius · Post by **Trinarius** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:28 pm

Iron and Light wrote:I agree with you, Trinarius. If this is just a lie made up by random Christians to give us false hope, I'm going to be rather angry. I believe there was a rumor that Steve Irwin (another celebrity whose death really upset me- my family and I watched literally every show he did) had accepted Jesus right before his death, and it turned out to be a lie. I really hope that's not the case with this 'news'. Mary Mar, being a Christian group, probably wouldn't lie, but who knows if they're even the ones releasing the news, and who knows if they got it first or second-hand.

In any event.... the old saying 'ignorance is bliss' really applies here. I think I'd rather remain ignorant if this turns out to be a farce, and continue to think that he's in Heaven. After all, there are no tears in Heaven, so if he did go to Hell, when I get to Heaven, I won't remember him, anyway.

Well put, I&L. I can certainly understand how you feel.

Regardless of whether the reports are true or not, I believe no one can say for certain whether he was saved at the time of his untimely death. However, I am sure all of us here can genuinely pray that he was.

Shad Lexer · Post by **Shad Lexer** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:43 pm

Maybe this will give things a bit more perspective. It's sad whenever someone dies without Christ, but I don't think we should be any more upset about his life than any of those other people dying every second. All he did was get famous. It annoys me how celerity oriented our culture is. Maybe this only annoys me because he was a celebrity I never like.

I don't mean to offend anyone with this post, I merely thought we should look at things with some perspective.

Iron and Light · Post by **Iron and Light** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:52 pm

Shad Lexer wrote:Maybe this will give things a bit more perspective. It's sad whenever someone dies without Christ, but I don't think we should be any more upset about his life than any of those other people dying every second. All he did was get famous. It annoys me how celerity oriented our culture is. Maybe this only annoys me because he was a celebrity I never like. I don't mean to offend anyone with this post, I merely thought we should look at things with some perspective.

That death counter truly is depressing... all deaths that end in eternal damnation really hit me hard. Michael Jackson just happened to be someone who suffered greatly in this life, depressing me even more. Even if he was famous with lots of money- it just goes to show you.. money can't buy you happiness. I sincerely hope that he found true happiness in Jesus Christ before his death.

However, his death upsets me no more than an unsaved neighbor's, acquaintance's, friend's, etc... It just so happened that Michael Jackson was widely publicized so we all learned so much about him before the end, and everyone know about his demise.

I think that's why everyone get's so 'into' celebrities- you see them, hear them, learn about them, etc.. SO MUCH that it's as if you know them, even though you don't. Reason number 1,193 not to get too wrapped up in entertainment, everyone

.

American Eagle · Post by **American Eagle** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:04 pm

Tyler wrote:
American Eagle wrote:
Tyler wrote:
American Eagle wrote:I can't believe how much the guy is worshiped, even by Christians! People in this forum say they've cried about the man's death several times, yet Jesus' death, who is our living Savior, is not worth the tears. We live in such a godless world.
Why should anyone cry about Jesus' death? He came back. $\:D/$
Okay then... why would anyone cry over MJ's death? He's in Hell?
If your grandmother died and went to hell I suspect you would shed somewhat of a tear?

People are mourning the loss of an American icon...not worshipping him.

Also...I didn't know you could discern who goes to hell or not...nice ability ya got there.

No... that wasn't my point. By, "He's in Hell?" (a question), I was replying to the idea that we don't need to cry over Jesus' death because he's in Heaven now (alive). If MJ was saved, he's alive in Heaven as well. If not, then he's in Hell (or will be...), and that would be something to mourn over.

I said it as a question, not a fact.

Iron and Light · Post by **Iron and Light** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:08 pm

American Eagle wrote:No... that wasn't my point. By, "He's in Hell?" (a question), I was replying to the idea that we don't need to cry over Jesus' death because he's in Heaven now (alive). If MJ was saved, he's alive in Heaven as well. If not, then he's in Hell (or will be...), and that would be something to mourn over.

I said it as a question, not a fact.

If he's in Heaven, then no, there's no real reason to mourn- we'd only be weeping selfishly because he's no longer with us.

American Eagle · Post by **American Eagle** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:13 pm

Iron and Light wrote: Umm.. exactly? The possibility that he's in Hell for all eternity (more than likely is if the latest news is just a rumor), and the horribly tragic life that people put him through here on earth is just too much for me to bear dry-eyed.

Jesus rose from the dead. There's nothing to cry about there. But even having said that, please don't be so prideful as to think that you know for certain that no one on this forum has ever cried about the Lord's death. You're wrong. I know that I myself have, even though I know it's not sad and I shouldn't cry about it. The Passion nearly renders me hysterical when I see what our Lord did for us.

Okay, that's good. I suppose I was just annoyed at the appearance of people being so sad over someone who did nothing for God's Kingdow's death.

Iron and Light wrote:
American Eagle wrote:No... that wasn't my point. By, "He's in Hell?" (a question), I was replying to the idea that we don't need to cry over Jesus' death because he's in Heaven now (alive). If MJ was saved, he's alive in Heaven as well. If not, then he's in Hell (or will be...), and that would be something to mourn over.

I said it as a question, not a fact.
If he's in Heaven, then no, there's no real reason to mourn- we'd only be weeping selfishly because he's no longer with us.

I too hope he is in Heaven, but nothing from his life showed us he was changed by the Holy Spirit.

Philippians 1:6 wrote:Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

With that being said, I highly doubt that rumor of him getting saved right before death is true. The blog had no proof, and it's so easy to make something like that up.

Iron and Light · Post by **Iron and Light** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:16 pm

There is absolutely nothing wrong with hoping that it was correct.

AE, it claimed he got saved THREE WEEKS ago. This was so soon ago that no big change would have been seen, more than likely.

It's not for us to judge. Yes, we'll know them by their fruit, but we cannot ever 100% know and say, 'He's in Hell,' or 'He's in Heaven.'

With that being said... all I can do is hope. All any of us can do is hope. Even if the accounts aren't true, we can never TRULY know where he is.. until we get to Heaven. And even then, like I said, since there's no weeping in Heaven, we'll only even remember him if he DID get saved. So by then, it won't matter to us.

Shad Lexer · Post by **Shad Lexer** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:25 pm

Maybe it's just me being uninformed, but wasn't the majority
(excluding childhood) of his suffering self-inflicted?

American Eagle · Post by **American Eagle** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:29 pm

Shad Lexer wrote:Maybe it's just me being uninformed, but wasn't the majority
(excluding childhood) of his suffering self-inflicted?

I thought so as well.

I&L: Alright, I agree with you. I hope he is in Heaven, but there's no way to know. Let this be a reminder to share our faith to those who still can make the decision! $\:D/$

Iron and Light · Post by **Iron and Light** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:32 pm

Shad Lexer wrote:Maybe it's just me being uninformed, but wasn't the majority
(excluding childhood) of his suffering self-inflicted?

No, it wasn't. About all he did that I know of to bring it on himself was be too gullible, naive, and trusting. People just took advantage of him.

Of course, everyone sins, so he obviously did a plethora of wrong stuff in his day, but the majority of his suffering that was publicized was because of other people's sins, not his own.

Shad Lexer · Post by **Shad Lexer** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:52 pm

Iron and Light wrote:
Shad Lexer wrote:Maybe it's just me being uninformed, but wasn't the majority
(excluding childhood) of his suffering self-inflicted?
No, it wasn't. About all he did that I know of to bring it on himself was be too gullible, naive, and trusting. People just took advantage of him.

Of course, everyone sins, so he obviously did a plethora of wrong stuff in his day, but the majority of his suffering that was publicized was because of other people's sins, not his own.

Somehow I don't believe all that, but I'll take your word for it.

God gave everyone brains, and you can't blame people other than yourself for how your life turns out. He made decisions, nobody makes you do anything, there is always a choice.

Iron and Light · Post by **Iron and Light** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:03 pm

Shad Lexer wrote:Somehow I don't believe all that, but I'll take your word for it. God gave everyone brains, and you can't blame people other than yourself for how your life turns out. He made decisions, nobody makes you do anything, there is always a choice.

You can't blame anyone for how you life ends up, but what others do to you does affect you.

Yeah, he could have used his head more- letting kids stay at your house, even if they are with their families, isn't the smartest thing in the world to do now-a-days; but, like I said, liking kids isn't a crime in and of itself. He was too trusting of people... that's not a crime, either. The biggest things that ruined him were the charges of child molestation, and all of that was a bunch of lies brought up by greedy, rude people. None of that was his fault, and aside from staying away from kids, there really wasn't anything he could have done to avoid it.

I know he was addicted to plastic surgery, more than likely, and that's not really good for your health or wallet, yet it's not a sin. So part of his looks was his fault, although I've heard conflicting accounts that he got more nose jobs due to pain and the like.

*shrugs*

I know he turned white because of a horrible disease called vitiligo- he didn't just want to 'become white' like so many people wrongly accuse him of doing.

Everything major that ruined his career was brought upon him by others aside from the plastic surgery. I'm sure there were things he could have done to avoid it (like being a bit more guarded), but what happened happened.

Still, if everyone had treated him compassionately and kindly, his life wouldn't have been near as tragic.

And thank you for taking my word on it

. I've done a lot of research about him and his life, because I hate taking the media, or other people's words on such things. I like reading the facts (BOTH sides of the arguments) and then making up my own mind.

EK · Post by EK » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:49 am

I thought this thread was meant for tributes, not arguing wether he went to hell or not.

Iron and Light · Post by **Iron and Light** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:06 pm

Tyler wrote:I thought this thread was meant for tributes, not arguing wether he went to hell or not.

Apparently, Jordan Chandler has confessed to having lied about Michael Jackson 'molesting him.' It's such a shame. The poor guy lived in ridicule because of a lying brat and his father.

V-lady · Post by **V-lady** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:53 pm

Did anyone watch his memorial service?

I didn't watch it, but my sister said, despite all the drama, it was pretty...moving or whatever.

Laurie · Post by **Laurie** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:57 pm

I've never been a fan of Michael Jackson, but I did watch. It was very moving.

Shad Lexer · Post by **Shad Lexer** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:10 pm

I was surprised OJ Simpson didn't speak.

Iron and Light · Post by **Iron and Light** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:46 pm

No, I didn't watch it. It's just too sad for me. I did, however, watch what his daughter Paris said, and some of what Brooke Shields said. It's just so tragic.

I've watched about half of his 2-hour long special of 'home videos' in the past week, though. I almost cried. He actually seemed like a lot of fun (any guy who gets squirt guns for Christmas and lets kids shove him in the pool has to be

). I was also shocked at his charming sense of humor. For some strange reason, I didn't picture him as that type, but many who knew him said he was a practical joker.

I can only hope and pray he knew the Lord before his death.