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Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:33 am
by Termite
Well yes, everything was in His plan... so perhaps the seasons existed solely outside the garden? Adam didn't have to work; he didn't need the seasons for planting. Once he left the garden, however; he would've needed them.
And as for them being beautiful, we all think that. We're accustomed to them. Fall is my favorite, because of the weather, but all it is is the death of creation. How is that beautiful? It's beautiful when it comes back to life, but after thining about it I don't think that word works quite so well in the fall. More of the fact that death is the promise of life to come. That's beautiful, but the whole dying thing isn't.
Thanks, Slort. I hadn't thought of that.
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:11 pm
by Dr. Watson
In my view, there were no seasons before the Flood. Due to the cataclysmic geological, atmospheric, and climatilogical changes induced by the Flood, seasons came about.
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:33 pm
by SoccerLOTR
Termite wrote:
And as for them being beautiful, we all think that. We're accustomed to them. Fall is my favorite, because of the weather, but all it is is the death of creation. How is that beautiful? It's beautiful when it comes back to life, but after thining about it I don't think that word works quite so well in the fall. More of the fact that death is the promise of life to come. That's beautiful, but the whole dying thing isn't.
Thanks, Slort. I hadn't thought of that.
Mmm...I disagree. Yes, in some ways it is death, but at the same time, it's not--because aside from the flowers and leaves, everything else just goes into hibernation so that it can return to growth come spring. And I don't see how the colors of Fall could come about if God just said it was "death"--if it were meant to be a sad season of things dying, all trees would be like the sycamore tree where the leaves just turn brown and dry up--there would be no colors, no evergreens, if God hadn't made them that way.
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:36 pm
by Termite
SoccerLOTR wrote:Termite wrote:
And as for them being beautiful, we all think that. We're accustomed to them. Fall is my favorite, because of the weather, but all it is is the death of creation. How is that beautiful? It's beautiful when it comes back to life, but after thining about it I don't think that word works quite so well in the fall. More of the fact that death is the promise of life to come. That's beautiful, but the whole dying thing isn't.
Thanks, Slort. I hadn't thought of that.
Mmm...I disagree. Yes, in some ways it is death, but at the same time, it's not--because aside from the flowers and leaves, everything else just goes into hibernation so that it can return to growth come spring. And I don't see how the colors of Fall could come about if God just said it was "death"--if it were meant to be a sad season of things dying, all trees would be like the sycamore tree where the leaves just turn brown and dry up--there would be no colors, no evergreens, if God hadn't made them that way.
Well... He brings beauty from ashes. Even though bad things like death happen, and though I don't believe He orchestrates these things, He can bring something good out of them all the time every time. The colors are there to remind us that He's in control and that He can make everything and anything beautiful.
On the hibernation thing, if there are animals in Heaven I don't see them having to hibernate. Everything's going to be perfect in Heaven; if it's different on earth that means it isn't perfect and that the change has come around because of the Fall. So I don't think the animals would have to hide away and survive; therefore I don't think it was originally intended in the earth. *shrug*
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:08 am
by SoccerLOTR
I was saying the trees go into hibernation--not die. And I guess I'm being technical about stuff--that's how I am--but somehow I still think God created the seasons--even if it was not in His original plan for the earth, I still feel like the possibility exists that since He knew the earth would change and it would no longer be protected and have a moderate climate, He put into place ways for the earth to survive through all seasons that would come into existence, as well as putting beauty into what could have been bad. I'm not sure if cold really came as a curse so much as what would naturally happen without the earth being protected--hence why some places are warm throughout the year and other places are cold...Maine isn't cursed with cold and "death" while Arizona was blessed with warmth--it's simply the proximity to the sun.
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:13 pm
by ~JCGJ~
Well, yes, the trees go into hibernation, but the leaves (which are composed almost entirely of living cells) all die.
Just a thought.
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:28 pm
by Kait
Just going to through this out there.
There is a difference when it comes to "death" between the death of living breathing creatures and the death of things like plants. Nephesh chayyah is the hebrew phrase that refers to living creatures such as humans and animals, and is never used in reference to plants. Specifically, it refers to the living soul God breathed into Adam. When it comes to the "Death" of plants, scripture tends to describe them as withering (hebrew yabesh) which is different than dying. It should also be noted that the "death" of plants plays a very vital role in our biological system, with the nutrients in "dead" plants being reclaimed and redistributed for new growth.
Which is to say that when it comes to the concept of "life" and "death", there is a distinct difference within scripture when it comes to humans/animals versus plants. So I am not entirely sure that using the death argument is a good way to prove there weren't originally four seasons.
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:59 pm
by ~JCGJ~
That's an excellent point, because (as I just realized), they did eat the fruits and plants of the garden; so you're right, using the "Death Argument," when it comes to plants and the seasons, is not the best approach.
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:14 pm
by Termite
Eating the fruits and plants and having the fruits and plants die so they can't be eaten are two different things.
It'll just be added to my list of what God needs to clarify when I get to Heaven.
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:05 am
by Wooton Z. Bassett
Yes, I believe he did create them originally, but revealed them after the flood
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:02 pm
by SoccerLOTR
Kait wrote:Just going to through this out there.
There is a difference when it comes to "death" between the death of living breathing creatures and the death of things like plants. Nephesh chayyah is the hebrew phrase that refers to living creatures such as humans and animals, and is never used in reference to plants. Specifically, it refers to the living soul God breathed into Adam. When it comes to the "Death" of plants, scripture tends to describe them as withering (hebrew yabesh) which is different than dying. It should also be noted that the "death" of plants plays a very vital role in our biological system, with the nutrients in "dead" plants being reclaimed and redistributed for new growth.
Which is to say that when it comes to the concept of "life" and "death", there is a distinct difference within scripture when it comes to humans/animals versus plants. So I am not entirely sure that using the death argument is a good way to prove there weren't originally four seasons.
Thank you, that's interesting!
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:30 pm
by jasonjannajerryjohn
No, God didn't originally create the seasons. That was because God's brother kidnapped the daughter of God's sister and God's sister cried for months causing the earth to freeze for her bitterness. But eventually God's niece escaped from the underworld...
Oh wait, wrong myth.
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:59 pm
by Josef1004
jasonjannajerryjohn wrote:No, God didn't originally create the seasons. That was because God's brother kidnapped the daughter of God's sister and God's sister cried for months causing the earth to freeze for her bitterness. But eventually God's niece escaped from the underworld...
Oh wait, wrong myth.
"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts"
--1Peter 3:3
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:52 pm
by jasonjannajerryjohn
Josef1004 wrote:jasonjannajerryjohn wrote:No, God didn't originally create the seasons. That was because God's brother kidnapped the daughter of God's sister and God's sister cried for months causing the earth to freeze for her bitterness. But eventually God's niece escaped from the underworld...
Oh wait, wrong myth.
"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts"
--1Peter 3:3
-lesigh- So apparently jokes are a bad thing? Jokes bring about the end of the world, apparently. 
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:41 pm
by Tea Ess
No, but I generally try to avoid potentially offensive jokes when the target audience is present. I would appreciate the same courtesy in return.
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:42 am
by jasonjannajerryjohn
OH! It's just like Narnia, only with jokes. You know in Magician's Nephew, Jadis has the deplorable word. Well it's the deplorable joke!
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:04 pm
by Tea Ess
Remember, you are not just representing yourself, you are representing an entire group of people.
To get back on topic, thank you for posting that, Kait. I understand that plant death is not considered death as they do not have the breath of life. However, plant death or dormancy would result in all other life to rely on stored fat or other sources of food. They would most likely be forced to hibernate, resulting in a period where all life would diminish.
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:42 pm
by bookworm
T.S. (myself) wrote:They would most likely be forced to hibernate, resulting in a period where all life would diminish.
Hibernation doesn’t diminish
life, just the actions of life.
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:33 pm
by Tea Ess
According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, life is:
a : the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional being from a dead body
b : a principle or force that is considered to underlie the distinctive quality of animate beings
c : an organismic state characterized by capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction
I would say that in distinguishing between a living body and a dead body, life would diminish during hibernation.
Re: Did God originally create the four seasons?
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:04 pm
by bookworm
T.S. (myself) wrote:I would say that in distinguishing between a living body and a dead body, life would diminish during hibernation.
What distinguishes a living body from a dead one is whether it is breathing. I don’t believe that ceases during hibernation. Unless you’re saying that because the entity just lies there for an extended period of time its life has diminished, as opposed to when it was moving around. But if that were true then your life would diminish each night when you sleep.