New movie on intellignet design versus evolution...

[Elrohir]

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/

[Lord Sesshoumaru]

Interesting. I've always been a Ben Stien fan since I've seen him on The Mask way back when.

Doctor Strange

[Jonathan]

*is looking forward to and possibly dreading Jared's reaction*

I might be interested in seeing this.

[Clodius Albinus]

And now, the anticipated, and much dreaded, response:

The trailer is unwatchable! Every line is punctuated by an annoying guitar riff, which appears to function as a sort of non-comedy rimshot. I'd expel Mr. Stein for this alone. After about a minute watching that trailer, you understand the effectiveness of the technique used against Manuel Noriega. Do they hope to play that terrible sound in close proximity to conventional scientists until they cave? Because that's perhaps the smartest strategy ID proponents have come up with yet.

Unfortunately for them, most of those who watch this film will already be in their camp, so all this will accomplish is inducing a psychotic break in a bunch of creationists. (Richard Dawkins, who appears in the trailer, might question whether it can really be described as the first episode of mental instability, but we'll ignore him.)

Okay, seriously, I can't really comment that extensively on a documentary I haven't seen (and won't see), but I certainly wouldn't have high hopes for it. Ben Stein's an intriguing guy (Nixon speechwriter to game show host to actor is not, I have heard, a typical career path), but labeling himself a "rebel" is more than a little ironic.

The premise, furthermore, is over the top. It is no doubt true that a young earth creationist or ID theorist who wants to bring these beliefs into the classroom is going to receive a somewhat frosty reception at most institutes of higher learning. Somehow, though, the movie's website recasts this as a bias against belief in God, suggesting that any scientist who believes in a higher power is anathema. This is probably news to the majority of scientists at American colleges and universities that say they believe in God.

That number, incidentally, doesn't include those who would subscribe to a belief set that would allow for something like Spinoza's god, yet the site favorably quotes Einstein to argue that belief in God is scientific. Surely the filmmakers are capable of reading more than a few out-of-context excerpts, where they would have quickly discovered that Einstein's god is most emphatically, and explicitly, Spinoza's.

The trailer, the site intro and the site's content all declare "No Intelligence Allowed," and suggest that new ideas aren't welcome in science, or that you can't challenge the evolutionary status quo. Mr. Stein should check the headlines; I've seen three substantial challenges to the standard model of human evolution advanced in as many months, if not less, one suggesting a semi-aquatic origin, another contending that bipedalism emerged at a much earlier stage than widely believed, and a third questioning the basic timeline. Yes, each of these retains the evolutionary framework, and no, it is not at all clear that any will be widely adopted (there are serious questions about each), but defenses of each idea have been published in reputable journals an have become the source of considerable scientific controversy. That is, incidentally, how science is supposed to advance.

Why the opposition to ID? Primarily because it's not science. It follows none of the strictures of the discipline; it is not testable, and only the most dyed-in-the-wool think it is observable or identifiable. It's faith with a flagellum thrown in, and that doesn't make it science.

I suspect that Stein's forthcoming movie is much ado about nothing. There's no crackdown on religious science professors or researchers, and that Richard Dawkins mocks believers implies no more about scientists than Christopher Hitchens' latest book suggests that neoconservatives unfailingly hate Christianity as well.

Oh, and "expelled"? The implication is that students have been expelled for stating a belief in intelligent design. Where? When? The "expelled" page only pictures Stein, Bono (?), Einstein, and Galileo. I have no idea if Bono was ever expelled, but if so, I doubt it was for belief in a theory that hadn't even emerged yet. Einstein was, for all practical purposes, an atheist. And Galileo's problems came at the hands of the Catholic Church, so that example isn't a very good one, either.

Needless to say, I'm not impressed.

UPDATE: In the first post on the site's blog, Stein (or someone writing for him) rants a bit about freedom of inquiry, as if someone's constitutional right are being violated by university employment practices in the sciences. Stein seems to believe that intellectual freedom requires that anyone be able to teach anything, in any setting. This is a most peculiar idea, and I, for one, am looking forward to Mr. Stein signing the petition to get Ward Churchill his job back.

Is it really so unreasonable to ask that those who teach science limit themselves, in the classroom, to science?

[Elrohir]

Unfortunately for them, most of those who watch this film will already be in their camp, so all this will accomplish is inducing a psychotic break in a bunch of creationists.

I don't believe that's true. Many Americans are unaware of the controversy and will probably find it interesting.

The trailer, the site intro and the site's content all declare "No Intelligence Allowed," and suggest that new ideas aren't welcome in science, or that you can't challenge the evolutionary status quo.

They suggest it because it's true. Most mainstream scientists don't care about science. All they care about is maintaining their status. Anyone who tells them they might be wrong can count on being shunned for the rest of his life. see: 2 Peter 3:3-7

Why the opposition to ID? Primarily because it's not science. It follows none of the strictures of the discipline; it is not testable, and only the most dyed-in-the-wool think it is observable or identifiable. It's faith with a flagellum thrown in, and that doesn't make it science.

By that definition evolution is not science either. It is not observable, not testable, and only the most dyed-in-the-wool think it is observable or identifiable. On top of that there is a LOT of evidence that contradicts it and is widely ignore by the scientific community. examples: T-Rex blood found in some unfossilized bones discovered in the early 90s, depictions of dinosaurs in ancient artwork and literature, the discovery of the coelacanth and dozens of other animals that were thought to be extinct for millions of years that get discovered every year and show no evidence in the fossil record that they should be here, all the millions of transitional forms that should exist, but don't. So what do they do? They classify them as "missing links". Why are they missing? BECAUSE THEY DON'T EXIST! They're completely unobservable. How much more unscientific can you get? see: http://www.s8int.com

Evolutionists look at the evidence through their world-view and interpret it accordingly. So do creationists. Science in and of itself cannot prove either creation or evolution. It does however contradict evolution.

Just to clarify; I don't use science to prove creation or intelligent design. I use the Bible for that.

[jasonjannajerryjohn]

I must say that I never saw Ben Stien as a creationist. I always thought of him as evolution all the way. I am a creationist, so I will say that God created the universe, just as he created man.

[Robo]

Very earily on I saw him believing this stuff. He is so funny. Yep, I like his part in the mask, too. I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS MOVIE!

-Robo

[Evil Chick]

*thread merged*

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/home.php

What do you think of this?

[Elrohir]

I can't wait to see this movie!

[Candy Connell]

wow... this looks pretty good.

[GlennAdams]

i agree... it looks very interesting. i had no clue what expelled was before goin to the site.

[Epic]

I thought is was going to be one of those secular movies with a lot of inopropriate stuff in it. BUt now it looks pretty good!

[ObiWan Kenobi Girl]

I'll say! now i want to see it. didn't know what it was b4.

[Evil Chick]

A friend of mine sent me the link to this, and I was pleasantly surprised. I think it looks really good.

[Alisha Richardson Wolfe]

Sounds interesting. I watched all the videos on there and in the interview Ben Stein mentioned that Darwin worked within the idea of a higher power. Blessings on him. That's been one of the things that's always bugged me when people argue about Darwin. They never mention that he believed in God, just that he created evolutionism (which he didn't!). I might actually go see this movie.

[Clodius Albinus]

I have the nagging suspicion that this isn't the first time I've commented on this "mockumentary" here, but really, this is just what we need: an old, grumpy, conservative white guy, better known as a game show host than as a minor figure the Nixon White House, trying to pass himself off as a rebel, and all in an effort to get public schools to teach pseudo-science on the taxpayer's dime.

[Jonathan]

I have the nagging suspicion that this isn't the first time I've commented on this "mockumentary" here,

That's because you have

but really, this is just what we need: an old, grumpy, conservative white guy, better known as a game show host than as a minor figure the Nixon White House, trying to pass himself off as a rebel, and all in an effort to get public schools to teach pseudo-science on the taxpayer's dime.

You can't use the 'taxpayer's' dime as the reason evolution should be taught with no challenge, b/c different taxpayers have different ideals.

What role did he play in the Nixon white house? I didn't know he was involved.

And I'll see this I'm sure at some point--not in theaters, but sometime. Knowing next to nothing about it I'm not going to label it as anything, but at face value it just sounds like he's trying to make the point of how "intolerant" science folk can be sometimes.

[The Top Crusader]

Hmmm it seems my local theater is actual showing this, which is rather shocking, I thought it'd only play in larger markets.

I doubt I will actually pay to see it or anything but I'm glad they are showing it.

[Rio]

My brother and dad went to see it on Sunday, they said it was pretty good except there was this really dumb girl sitting near by talking too much......

I am glad that something like this is showing around the nation though.

[The Top Crusader]

Plus yay Ben Stein is awesome!