[Split From Thread In Harlequin] Song of Solomon, etc.

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Post by Knight Fisher »

We're in The Harliquen. :-s
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Post by Amethystic »

This conversation was getting weird, so I moved it. :-s Have fun, I suppose.
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Post by Marvin D. »

Hasn't this thread been split twice already. .?
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ric
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Post by ric »

Okay, now everyone start arguing about whether God created the world or not. \:D/
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Post by Marvin D. »

EVOLUTION IS STUFFED DOWN PEOPLE'S THROATS! :x
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Post by jelly »

Pip wrote:The term 'erotica,' in most cases has the implication of arousing sexual desire. It even says so in the dictionary. It meant that 70 years ago. I get what you're saying, and I agree with it, but just don't use the term 'erotica,' because anyone, even a scholar, who hears that is probably not going to think "beautiful sexual expression."
Well, this isn't all that fair, but coincidentally I happen to be writing a research paper on SoS for one of my current courses. :P The term 'erotica' is actually heavily used by scholars who take a literal contextual view of the book. Whether you like you implications behind that particular phrasing or not, it is considered to accurately describe the literature style of SoS. There's nothing wrong with the word 'erotica' or the meaning behind it... you're just repelled by the negative implications that fill your mind due to our culture's mindset concerning sexual expression.
Amethystic wrote:This conversation was getting weird, so I moved it. :-s Have fun, I suppose.
HOW DARE WE TALK ABOUT SEX IN A BIBLICAL CONTEXT. SIN.
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Post by Lee »

Pip wrote:Okay, now everyone start arguing about whether God created the world or not. \:D/

I actually started laughing out loud when I got to this post.
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\:D/
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Post by ric »

Jelly wrote:
Pip wrote:The term 'erotica,' in most cases has the implication of arousing sexual desire. It even says so in the dictionary. It meant that 70 years ago. I get what you're saying, and I agree with it, but just don't use the term 'erotica,' because anyone, even a scholar, who hears that is probably not going to think "beautiful sexual expression."
Well, this isn't all that fair, but coincidentally I happen to be writing a research paper on SoS for one of my current courses. :P The term 'erotica' is actually heavily used by scholars who take a literal contextual view of the book. Whether you like you implications behind that particular phrasing or not, it is considered to accurately describe the literature style of SoS. There's nothing wrong with the word 'erotica' or the meaning behind it... you're just repelled by the negative implications that fill your mind due to our culture's mindset concerning sexual expression.
It has nothing to do with the culture's mindset. It has to do with my personal opinion. Please, I'm tired of you always going back to "the culture" and it's mindset and how I can't think for myself. Give me some credit, okay? It has to do with my personal opinion. "Erotic" means arousing sexual desire. Obviously, "erotica" has the base word "erotic." Anyone who knows what "erotic" means is going to think "erotica" is something that arouses sexual desire. We agree that that art or literature that arouses sexual desire is not godly, correct? Okay then. It's all symantecs. Merriam-Webster says that erotica is literature or art that has an erotic element, but whatever.

I hope the scholars are not using the term to mean "arousing sexual desire," because SoS does not, and is not meant, to do that.
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Post by The Kings Daughter »

Jelly wrote:Sex in the Bible is great, though. \:D/ It's the perfect context for getting introduced to it.
Especially at the RIGHT time the parents see for the kid. \:D/

And after reading this thread, I still don't get it. WHAT, are we debating, praytell? Whether or not the Bible talks about, eh, marriage?
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Post by ric »

Whether SoS should be labeled erotica or not.
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Post by Musical Shutterbug »

Song of Soloman is a book of the Bible expressing pure marital love as ordained by Christ. Why is that inappropriate?
*insert provocative quote here*
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Post by ric »

Katniss wrote:Song of Soloman is a book of the Bible expressing pure marital love as ordained by Christ. Why is that inappropriate?
Yep, and it's not intended to arouse sexual desire in the reader. No one is saying it's inapproprate. ;)
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Post by Musical Shutterbug »

I was all fired up for a debate :p Great job, ric.
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Post by bookworm »

Katniss wrote:I was all fired up for a debate :p
You can still have one, just change your focus. ;) There’s still a disagreement going on here.
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Post by Musical Shutterbug »

Oh, goodie! \:D/

Can someone summarize the conflict? ;)
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Post by jelly »

Pip wrote:Please, I'm tired of you always going back to "the culture" and it's mindset and how I can't think for myself. Give me some credit, okay?
I wasn't attempting to insult you directly, but I refer to the 'cultural mindset' because it's entirely relevant to this conversation. I'm sorry if it came across as a personal attack; it wasn't intended to be one. Heck, I'm victim of the cultural mindset just as much as the next person. Which is why I enjoy it when I discover things that the church has, in the past, regarded as taboo because of cultural opposition are actually beautiful in God's eyes. You seem vehemently opposed to viewing SoS as any kind of source of sexual arousal... but why? I would argue that it IS in fact the intention of SoS's erotic phrasing to excite the reader sexually. The anatomy of the human form is described in intimate detail. Sexual intercourse is not merely referred to, it is foundational to the story arc, elaborated with flourish. The writer grasps at every bit of analogical phrasing in order to portray explicit sexual expression to the fullest. Why else would this have been written?
Pip wrote:Yep, and it's not intended to arouse sexual desire in the reader.
See, this is where I feel like you're resisting based on a counter-cultural mindset, instead of God's mindset. What's wrong with sexual desire? God intended for us to be fully capable of sexual desire from an early age, and it seems clear to me that SoS was written with the obvious intention of complimenting this God-ordained desire. What you're opposed to is the 'cultural mindset' that has objectified sex and confused God's desire for sexual intimacy with sexual immorality. I believe, especially since SoS is found directly in the Biblical cannon, that all its descriptions of intimacy and sex are entirely pure, and I also believe that the sexual desire God gifted us with is intended to be entirely pure. I'm then led to the conclusion that the two must compliment each other in the purest form.
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Post by The Kings Daughter »

Wait, so are you arguing whether or not the world should study SoS? Sorry, still confused.
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Post by Musical Shutterbug »

The second part of Jelly's post was amazing :inlove: That was well said.
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Post by The Kings Daughter »

Katniss wrote:The second part of Jelly's post was amazing :inlove: That was well said.
Oh, yeah, it was good. O:) Our church actually had a service or two discussion this topic and what you said, Jelly. Most awkward church day ever. :-
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Post by TigerintheShadows »

I'd imagine so, TKD. ;) We were discussing whether the Bible was graphic or not, and I think I mentioned Song of Solomon at some point as being sexually graphic, and Pip started talking about...something to do with erotica. It all snowballed from there.
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