629: The Highest Stakes - Part II

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629: The Highest Stakes - Part II

Postby Lucy Pevensie » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:47 am

I'm listening to it at Oneplace . . . What did you guys think? :]

EDIT:: I finished listening to it right now . . . I think it was a great episode. Whit and Grady are great \:D/ It looks like things are looking up for Grady and his fam . . .
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Postby LizzieG » Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:48 am

It's been a long time since I've felt an episode was more deserving of 5 stars than this one. Without a doubt my favorite episode of the season.

While everything I said last week still stands, I definitely was too skeptical of the writers. I wasn't opposed to a happy ending per se, but it had to be done right. And it was.

One of the things I loved was that Grady accepted Christ when things were seemingly at their worst and when he wasn't sure how his mom would respond to his decision.

So all my worries that one episode couldn't do justice to this story were unfounded. Though we know Grady's story arc is over, we also get the sense that the McKay family still has a long journey ahead of them...so it's more of a hopeful ending than anything else, and the best possible one at that.
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Postby Elrohir » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:37 pm

My only complaint, and one of my few complaints about AiO, is that when it comes to salvation the vital subject of sin separating us from God is often glossed over. There is also an over emphasis on saying a special prayer to be saved. Just from listening to the show it is unclear what needs to be done to be saved. Sometime they say to pray a prayer, sometime they say to "make Jesus Lord"(seriously, what does that mean exactly?) and usually it's ask Jesus into your heart. The Bible never says anything about asking Jesus into you heart when it comes to salvation. What it does say is to believe in Him. See: John 3:16

4/5
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Postby Jonathan » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:46 pm

Elrohir wrote:My only complaint, and one of my few complaints about AiO, is that when it comes to salvation the vital subject of sin separating us from God is often glossed over. There is also an over emphasis on saying a special prayer to be saved. Just from listening to the show it is unclear what needs to be done to be saved. Sometime they say to pray a prayer, sometime they say to "make Jesus Lord"(seriously, what does that mean exactly?) and usually it's ask Jesus into your heart. The Bible never says anything about asking Jesus into you heart when it comes to salvation. What it does say is to believe in Him. See: John 3:16


I'll second that.

Aside from that complaint, there wasn't anything I didn't like about this ep, and was excited to review it--but I listened to both parts like 5 days ago, and forgot what I was going to say. I enjoyed it though.
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Postby Trent DeWhite » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:57 pm

Elrohir wrote:There is also an over emphasis on saying a special prayer to be saved. Just from listening to the show it is unclear what needs to be done to be saved.

I disagree. What "special prayer" did you hear in this episode? If anything, explicitly outlining a "salvation prayer" might place an unneeded emphasis on the exact words we should say say. I don't think the show (or even Odyssey in general) was designed to show people the how--the specific steps necessary in order to become saved. Rather, it was made to show why it is so important.
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Postby Elrohir » Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:01 pm

Trent DeWhite wrote:
Elrohir wrote:There is also an over emphasis on saying a special prayer to be saved. Just from listening to the show it is unclear what needs to be done to be saved.

I disagree. What "special prayer" did you hear in this episode? If anything, explicitly outlining a "salvation prayer" might place an unneeded emphasis on the exact words we should say say.

I'll give you that on the prayer in this episode. But there is an overall emphasis on the show in general.

Trent DeWhite wrote:I don't think the show (or even Odyssey in general) was designed to show people the how--the specific steps necessary in order to become saved. Rather, it was made to show why it is so important.

And why is it so important? (Please answer.)


Are you saying that AiO has no responsibility in reaching the lost? It seems that the show has taken that upon itself from the very beginning. How can you help someone come to salvation without telling them how, only why they need it. That's like saying that when you witness to someone all you have to do is say "Hey, you're a sinner and you're going to hell and you need to be saved from it. Bye."

The "specific steps" you mentioned are not hard or controversial. The Bible tells us over and over again that belief (faith and trust) in Jesus is what saves us.
Last edited by Elrohir on Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Trent DeWhite » Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:03 pm

Have they not explained it sufficiently throughout the last several Grady shows? :(
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Postby The Top Crusader » Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:43 pm

I didn't think so personally.

But again I don't think its the place for the show to do too much of that... just sort of get kids thinking so they talk to their parent or whatever.
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Postby Jonathan » Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:44 pm

I think what Elrohir is objecting to is the following:

The very concept of a prayer said to attain your salvation (and yes, I am very aware I worded that pointedly) is unbiblical.

Two, when we have a 'salvation scene' in AIO, there is hardly ever a time (I'd say none as I can't think of a scene that does off the top of my head, but I don't want to be having my foot for dinner later on ;) ) where they mention sin, which is the reason we need to be saved
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Postby The Top Crusader » Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:47 pm

I forget, was Eugene's salvation a little more specific on that, or not so much? That was one of the more detailed ones but I don't recall "sin" being mentioned at the moment...
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Postby Jonathan » Sat Dec 08, 2007 3:50 pm

The Top Crusader wrote:I forget, was Eugene's salvation a little more specific on that, or not so much? That was one of the more detailed ones but I don't recall "sin" being mentioned at the moment...


It was in episodes leading to that moment (Thy Kingdom Come and The Mortal Coil Part 2), but I don't believe it was in The Time Has Come.
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Postby Trent DeWhite » Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:09 pm

Jonathan wrote:The very concept of a prayer said to attain your salvation (and yes, I am very aware I worded that pointedly) is unbiblical.

So what's your point? What Grady did was biblical?

Quite honestly, I think we tend to over analyze things a bit... myself included. :anxious:
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Postby Jeremy » Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:09 pm

(I wrote most of this post before reading anyone else's responses.)

Everything about this episode was poorly done. The dialogue wasn't very good, all the scenes seemed disjointed, it was confusing, and it left us having to guess/assume things about what happened.

For example, did Whit pay the debt, or are the bad guys still after Carson?? Or is this going to be continued next week? I noticed that the following lines from the preview at the end of part 1 were totally missing from part 2's episode:

Grady: Is it dangerous? Are there people after you?

Carson: Why would you say that?

Grady: You're acting scared.


Perhaps these lines were cut out from the scene where Carson asks Grady about the envelope? Either way, it is strange that these lines were in the preview and not in the actual episode!

And the most important thing that's wrong with the episode is the "gospel" that was presented. There was no mention of our hopelessly sinful and LOST condition, or of Jesus paying for our sins on the Cross by His death, or of the free gift of eternal life by trusting in His atoning sacrifice alone for our salvation. Come to think of it, there was no mention of "salvation" at all in this "salvation" episode!

"For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified." (2 Corinthians 2:2 NASB.)

was changed to:

"Jesus Christ but nothing about Him crucified."

It sounded more like a Joel Osteen gospel, than the Gospel of the Bible!

And someone mentioned the "why" of being saved. Well, first of all, like I said, being saved wasn't even mentioned so there was no "why" either. And the reason they gave for why you should "ask Jesus into your heart" (or whatever words were used) was that you need God to help you change your own life!!! Don't you all see a problem with this?? And according to Wooton, only some people need God's help in order to "change" even!

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Postby Jonathan » Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:22 pm

So what's your point? What Grady did was biblical?


If he prayed so he could be saved...yes. And I'm not overanalyzing this--though we do have a tendency to do that--we're talking about salvation. If what Focus is teaching about salvation through this series is unbiblical, concern on my part is warranted.

Jeremy wrote:
Grady: Is it dangerous? Are there people after you?

Carson: Why would you say that?

Grady: You're acting scared.


Perhaps these lines were cut out from the scene where Carson asks Grady about the envelope? Either way, it is strange that these lines were in the preview and not in the actual episode!


I seem to remember that they were in the episode...there were just lines between the first line there and the second, so they didn't appear exactly in the episode as they did in the preview.

And according to Wooton, only some people need God's help in order to "change" even!


Where was that in the ep?
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Postby Trent DeWhite » Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:32 pm

Jeremy wrote:There was no mention of our hopelessly sinful and LOST condition, or of Jesus paying for our sins on the Cross by His death, or of the free gift of eternal life by trusting in His atoning sacrifice alone for our salvation. Come to think of it, there was no mention of "salvation" at all in this "salvation" episode!

I really don't want to get into a huge theological debate over an Odyssey episode... at least not right now. ;) However, I would like to point out a couple things. First, the focus of this episode was not on Grady's salvation... while that was certainly a major highlight of the show, the moral of the story was about the concept of forgiveness. Second, since when did the term "salvation" need to be explicitly mentioned in order to explain why we need God? Quite frankly, it saddens me that we need to use all these big theological words to express something that doesn't have to be that complicated! Try explaining atonement, salvation, and sanctification to a child. You'd bore the child to death! I think the same can be applied for Adventures in Odyssey. Yes, Odyssey's purpose is to direct people to Christ... but they're not going to get into (nor do they need to) all the technical aspects of salvation. When we trounce all over the writers in this manner, it really comes across as rather dogmatic. :(

Jeremy wrote:Perhaps these lines were cut out from the scene where Carson asks Grady about the envelope? Either way, it is strange that these lines were in the preview and not in the actual episode!

I'm pretty sure the heart of the dialogue was kept... perhaps not word-for-word, but Grady definitely caught on to his dad's dilemma in Part II!
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Postby Jonathan » Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:53 pm

Trent DeWhite wrote:First, the focus of this episode was not on Grady's salvation... while that was certainly a major highlight of the show, the moral of the story was about the concept of forgiveness.


Why do we need to be forgiven? Tell me from the episode.

Quite frankly, it saddens me that we need to use all these big theological words to express something that doesn't have to be that complicated! Try explaining atonement, salvation, and sanctification


Ok, one, no one here said that.

Two, the episode was explaining salvation--or at least a part of it (I'm sad you think that's a boring topic).

to a child. You'd bore the child to death!


Then you, my friend, do not know children.

It all depends on how you present it--and you don't necessarily even need to use the terms to do so.

Are you advocating theology--which, by definition, is the study of God--not be taught to children?

It boggles my mind that Christians think theology--and especially salvation, the good news itself--is boring.

I think the same can be applied for Adventures in Odyssey. Yes, Odyssey's purpose is to direct people to Christ... but they're not going to get into (nor do they need to) all the technical aspects of salvation.


But there is such a thing as not giving enough info. Needing out the "why" falls into that category. If they don't say why we need to be saved, does AIO having a character 'get saved' carry much weight?
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Postby JesusFreak777 » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:11 pm

for the Record, I believe that the Episode "A Worker Approved" goes through Salvation and it's workings quite well, as do several other "witnessing" episodes - though I can't think of titles right now.

I loved the show, but I too was left with a few plot point type questions hanging over my head. Mre from me later though on the podcast. :)
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Postby Trent DeWhite » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:58 pm

Jonathan wrote:
Trent DeWhite wrote:First, the focus of this episode was not on Grady's salvation... while that was certainly a major highlight of the show, the moral of the story was about the concept of forgiveness.

Why do we need to be forgiven? Tell me from the episode.

Oh, that's right. We don't need forgiveness. #-o It's not like Chris' wrap-up meant anything... why was Carson even in the episode anyway??? ](*,)

Jonathan wrote:It all depends on how you present it--and you don't necessarily even need to use the terms to do so.

My point exactly! :noway:
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Postby ComputerGeek » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:58 pm

Great episode, though I thought the story arch ended too quickly.
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Postby H Tide » Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:04 pm

I thought this two-parter was an excellent conclusion to the Grady story-arc. I loved how Wooton demonstrated forgiveness toward Grady, showing him Jesus' character. I was surprised to and pleased to hear Carson McKay return to his family. And finally, it was wonderful to hear Grady accept Jesus as his Savior.
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