902-903: California Dreams, Parts 1-2

Discuss the album 69 finale!

Archived reviews of Adventures in Odyssey episodes!
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Monica Stone
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902-903: California Dreams, Parts 1-2

Post by Monica Stone »

"California Dreams, Part 1" is out! I heard it about an hour or so ago and I have thoughts. I will start this thread with a clean slate and let someone else give their thoughts first. :lol:
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Post by MonkeyDude »

So I actually wasn't a big fan of 'For A Song' but this one was really fun. I think the "He was talking about ordering a woman at a drive-through" gag geniunely might be one of my favorite Odyssey jokes. I really want to like the Buck-Jules dynamic more, and I for sure don't dislike it or anything, but it has just been difficult to get into. Even though it comes at the cost of Jules being unlikable, I really appreciate how realistic of a character she is. Aaron Ehasz (a writer for ATLA) has a really good board thing on how to write characters that really pertains to Jules in my opinion.
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Post by Monica Stone »

MonkeyDude wrote:So I actually wasn't a big fan of 'For A Song' but this one was really fun.
That's funny, because I preferred "For a Song" to this episode but I still enjoy them both. \:D/ This episode surprised me in how extremely modern it felt. It's different for Odyssey. Not a bad thing necessarily, but it threw me off guard.
MonkeyDude wrote:I think the "He was talking about ordering a woman at a drive-through" gag geniunely might be one of my favorite Odyssey jokes.
I had to pause the episode because I was laughing so hard. Hands down the best joke of the episode and probably one of the best of the whole album. It was a great joke and the little jabs at pop music were funny, even as someone who does sometimes enjoys a little bit of pop. Also, Taylor Quick is a singer in the canon of the aio world. I am dead. :lol: That's gold.
MonkeyDude wrote:I really want to like the Buck-Jules dynamic more, and I for sure don't dislike it or anything, but it has just been difficult to get into. Even though it comes at the cost of Jules being unlikable, I really appreciate how realistic of a character she is. Aaron Ehasz (a writer for ATLA) has a really good board thing on how to write characters that really pertains to Jules in my opinion.
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I really liked "For a Song" because I feel like I got a better look at Buck & Jules's friendship in a more casual light. Ever since Buck got out of juvie, he has wanted to do the right thing and start a fresh, new life. He has definitely made mistakes along the way, but his motives are always pure. Jules, on the other hand, came to Odyssey to steal Wooton's art and hasn't always had the best motives even after that situation. Now, she had seemed to be on a better track, but her fans & comments got to her head and she started basing her self-worth on what others thought. I love this and I think it's really realistic and great. Jules has always been more selfish and immature compared to Buck and this episode highlights it, which I like. Jules is a really realistic character that I think many teens/kids can relate to in one way or another. In the end, we're probably going to get some nice character development.

Although this episode involves a character returning to their hometown of California, this is not a rip-off of "Connie, Parts 1-2." Connie returned to California realizing how much she had changed because of her time in Odyssey and learning about God. Jules, on the other hand, is living it up now. She has a couple small gripes with changing some parts of her style & music for commericial purposes, but she doesn't quite realize the full extent of how problematic that can be. Yet. I am excited to see what happens in part 2.

I like the sticky notes about characters. Although I'm inclined to think you need at least one or more of the things under "FALSE GODS" to make a protagonist fans will cheer for. Genarelly, characters don't necessarily have to be likable, relatable, or sympathetic, but specifically protagonist would do well to have those things.
Last edited by Monica Stone on Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Scientific Guy »

My opinion on Part 1 is very mixed, especially after reading your thoughts. However, I will say this: This was my response to the final line of this episode, and in general the whole thing.



"Hello? Are you okay?"
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Post by MonkeyDude »

Monica Stone wrote:
MonkeyDude wrote:So I actually wasn't a big fan of 'For A Song' but this one was really fun.
That's funny, because I preferred "For a Song" to this episode but I still enjoy them both. \:D/ This episode surprised me in how extremely modern it felt. It's different for Odyssey. Not a bad thing necessarily, but it threw me off guard.
I hadn't thought about how modern it felt! You're spot on there!
Monica Stone wrote: I had to pause the episode because I was laughing so hard. Hands down the best joke of the episode and probably one of the best of the whole album. It was a great joke and the little jabs at pop music were funny, even as someone who does sometimes enjoys a little bit of pop. Also, Taylor Quick is a singer in the canon of the aio world. I am dead. :lol: That's gold.
I completely agree haha! It really cracked me up! I had to do a double-take like WOW they actually went there! Great stuff!
Monica Stone wrote:I really liked "For a Song" because I feel like I got a better look at Buck & Jules's friendship in a more casual light. Ever since Buck got out of juvie, he has wanted to do the right thing and start a fresh, new life. He has definitely made mistakes along the way, but his motives are always pure. Jules, on the other hand, came to Odyssey to steal Wooton's art and hasn't always had the best motives even after that situation. Now, she had seemed to be on a better track, but her fans & comments got to her head and she started basing her self-worth on what others thought. I love this and I think it's really realistic and great. Jules has always been more selfish and immature compared to Buck and this episode highlights it, which I like. Jules is a really realistic character that I think many teens/kids can relate to in one way or another. In the end, we're probably going to get some nice character development.

Although this episode involves a character returning to their hometown of California, this is not a rip-off of "Connie, Parts 1-2." Connie returned to California realizing how much she had changed because of her time in Odyssey and learning about God. Jules, on the other hand, is living it up now. She has a couple small gripes with changing some parts of her style & music for commericial purposes, but she doesn't quite realize the full extent of how problematic that can be. Yet. I am excited to see what happens in part 2.
I'm going to listen to 'For A Song' again I think (and hopefully kinda delve into my feelings a bit more on the 'For A Song' page). The biggest thing that bugged me was just the undoing of Valerie's character development after 'Take Every Thought Captive' without really alluding to it at all. I'm really curious to hear other people's thoughts on this. I guess it is pretty realistic in that way but Valerie has the potential to be such an interesting character and she keeps getting shoved into the shallow villain box. Which, I suppose, is a role that is needed to contrast all that's going on in the Morrie arc which is anything but shallow.

I've also been pretty neutral on the character of Buck in the past, but I really like the way he has been developed! He is a really good and genuine friend even though he doesn't seem to gain much from the relationship with Jules, so kudos to him.

One thing I do really love though is Jules' and Buck's parallel to Connie and Eugene, as well as Connie and Eugene both doing the 'pseudo parenting' thing at the same time. As you said, Jules going to California is not a rip off of 'Connie' in the slightest, but instead is complemented by it. It's fresh and new but still familiar in a way. And dang...poor Connie. She knows exactly where Jules is at because she was the same way. I absolutely love how this has all come full circle for her even if it hurts my heart a little.
Scientific Guy wrote:My opinion on Part 1 is very mixed, especially after reading your thoughts. However, I will say this: This was my response to the final line of this episode, and in general the whole thing.



"Hello? Are you okay?"
That ending though. ](*,) Hope y'all are ready to go full rom-com up in here haha! :lol:
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Post by Monica Stone »

I just re-listened to the episode again. More thoughts incoming. \:D/

First of all, there were a lot of references to a lot of things. The Wescotts, Tom's farm, and Buck's toothpicks (which you better believe I will get to below). I like callbacks and references so I found that to be a lot of fun.

So, I am not sure how I feel about Buck's role in the opening argument scene. Jules is really petty (which isn't out of character) and Buck is fed up. I have been in Buck's shoes a few years ago, so I know how he feels; a friend overthinks and stresses about what others think about them and they won't take your advice or disregard/deny the encouragement you offer. It's frustrating and I get it. But is it in-character for Buck react in such a short-tempered manner? He did in Crash Course at Eugene & Katrina because of the weight of his frustration & anger and because he had repressed his feelings for so long. So it fits? I'm unsure. Maybe it's just because we, as an audience, have not seen a frustrated Buck very often. Every single time he is openly frustrated ("Badges of Honor" and "Crash Course" come to mind), I think, "Is that in-character?" Maybe it's just the certain mindset with which I view Buck. I'm going to keep thinking about it. I think it works...

Also, I thought Buck ditched toothpicks after he got send to juvie! I liked how he ditched the toothpicks when he started his "new life". It was symbolic. But okay, sure, I guess he chewed toothpicks for about six months after Eugene and Katrina took him in. :?

I do not like Jan Kendall. I remember in "The Ties that Bind" (which I fully re-listened to a few days ago), Jules said that her mom was more acted more like her sister than Connie does and Connie is more of a mother to her than her biological mother. That checks out with this episode.

Jan is very much like Bill in that she jumps into marriage. Yikes, slow down a little.
Scientific Guy wrote:My opinion on Part 1 is very mixed, especially after reading your thoughts. However, I will say this: This was my response to the final line of this episode, and in general the whole thing.



"Hello? Are you okay?"
The ending was especially very odd and abrupt. That's a very appropriate response lol. So now apparently Jules is "dating" the guy who wrote a song about ordering a girlfriend at a drive-thru. I have no hope for this dude.
MonkeyDude wrote:I'm going to listen to 'For A Song' again I think (and hopefully kinda delve into my feelings a bit more on the 'For A Song' page). The biggest thing that bugged me was just the undoing of Valerie's character development after 'Take Every Thought Captive' without really alluding to it at all. I'm really curious to hear other people's thoughts on this. I guess it is pretty realistic in that way but Valerie has the potential to be such an interesting character and she keeps getting shoved into the shallow villain box. Which, I suppose, is a role that is needed to contrast all that's going on in the Morrie arc which is anything but shallow.
I get that and I wholly agree. But I knew that unless Valerie became a club-exclusive character, her development wouldn't stick so I guess I wasn't as hopeful. "Take Every Thought Captive" has a somewhat ambiguous ending because the listener doesn't know for sure if Valerie actually stops and works on becoming a better person or not. It would have been so much better if they continued to develop her from that episode, but alas. That's also my #1 complaint with "Playing Favorites." She's bullying a ten-year-old! Is she really that dumb? "For a Song" didn't disappoint me in that way because I had already gotten my big moment of disappointment with "Playing Favorites." For the record, I do enjoy the sinister, sneaky Valerie from "Friend or Foe" and "For a Song" versus shallow, dumb Valerie in "Playing Favorites." But my ultimate desire would have that they continued going with the development she recieved in "Take Every Thought Captive." It would have probably been very compelling. But anyway, this conversation belongs on another thread lol.

I think I know exactly who's responsible for this - err, I think I know what's going to happen. Please tell me someone caught that reference The real reason Jan & Coyote brought Jules back to California so suddenly is because they heard about her FaceBase fame and her singing in the Wescott group, not because they want to form familial bonds. Jules makes this realization before also realizing how she isn't her "true self" when she is forced to be a commercialized pop singer. She also recognizes how much she misses Connie, Buck, and her other friends and goes back to Odyssey. She reconciles with Buck and goes back to live with Connie again.
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Post by Bob »

I've found it's been a little hard to enjoy the other new episodes as much with the clouds from Rydell Revelations (and Millstones) hanging over everything, but I did listen to Part 1.

Jan is pretty much exactly what she's been billed as all this time, which shouldn't be all that surprising, but when you have an invisible character with no backstory for several years, it's easy to get your own ideas about who or what they're like, that must be almost inevitably disproved when more details surface.

On the subject of this episode and other recent ones, I think sometimes fans are too quick to jump into saying that somebody is portrayed in a way that is 'uncharacteristic'. In AIO, our first tendency is to blame the writers and say they got the character wrong if it doesn't meet our expectations, but if it were a real person and we saw them do something unexpected, we would just say that we don't know them as well as we thought we did. There may be times when it is legitimately very hard or impossible to square an episode with our understanding of characters, continuity, and even reality, but there is usually room for a reasonable explanation if we keep our mind open to one.

For example, I don't think 'Playing Favorites' is a bad Valerie episode; I just think it's a different setting for her. She isn't a 'teen villain', but rather disgruntled Bridget's edgy friend. We can't expect her 'scheme' to be sophisticated, because there isn't one; whenever we see her, she's in the middle of doing something else, like hanging out with Bridget, or getting food at the burger joint. Valerie is casually and habitually mean, and Wyatt is there, so she's mean to him. That's an entirely different context from the 'scheming Val' episodes, where she goes out of her way to pick at somebody because they have something she wants. Finally, though I've said this before, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss TETC; even if there isn't any obvious result right now, that doesn't mean that she won't change later on in her life, whether we see it in an episode or not.

Anyway, as far as this episode goes, it's definitely interesting. I expected leaving to be a longer and more drawn out process, so I was surprised when it was done in the first 5 minutes of the episode. Jan is exactly as she's been billed to be all this time.

What I find to be the biggest currently unanswered question is Coyote ("Ky"'s) thought process and motivation. The hypothesis Monica came up with seems plausible, but it strikes me as a little too easy. It's exactly the kind of plot fans expect, and would come up with on their own if given the time, because it hits on the need for 1) obvious villains, and 2) the episodes to be part of a 'plot', to meet the need for Jules being a victim.

The difficulty with saying that she was 'forced', though, is that she really hasn't been. Even when Jan came out of the blue to pick her up, she did have the opportunity to make a choice (to slow down), but she didn't. She eventually agreed with everything that's happened, even if it did take some persuading at points.

What I think is just as likely and may even make for a better story, is if Ky is on the level. I admit the full name isn't a very good first impression, but once he had actually been around a few minutes, he seemed to be a nice guy. Honestly, I thought at one point that Ky was too nice for Jan and that she would end up doing something to mess things up. It's possible that could change, but it might be that he is sincere in his intentions, and that the way they do it in the pop industry just doesn't mesh with Jules' expectations.

Here's a possible alternate plot: Jules eventually has enough and wants out. Ky is personally okay with her not doing these things, but if she doesn't, she can't be a 'pop star'. Jan is upset by the 'lost opportunity' at indirect fame and fortune, and there is some fallout, whereupon Jules ends up going back to Odyssey, with Jan blaming Jules for problems and not being inclined to have her around anymore. This plot also seems to be lacking a little something (since all it does is just make Jan, as opposed to both Jan and Ky, the 'villain') of the piece, but it could happen.

The logical next step in hypotheses/alt-plotting would be to guess that even Jan is on the level, at least inasmuch as she can be, which would make the story entirely about Jules: her inaction, reactions and actions. This villainless plot is compelling, but it also has the end result of making it very much like "Connie" structurally and thematically: Connie/Jules thinks she wants something in California, gets it, and finds out that it doesn't suit her/didn't turn out how she expected it would, not so much because of other people, but because of herself. Whether there's enough of a divergence from the Connie plot at this point to make that okay in the eyes of critics remains to be seen.
Last edited by Bob on Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Monica Stone »

Bob wrote:On the subject of this episode and other recent ones, I think sometimes fans are too quick to jump into saying that somebody is portrayed in a way that is 'uncharacteristic'. In AIO, our first tendency is to blame the writers and say they got the character wrong if it doesn't meet our expectations, but if it were a real person and we saw them do something unexpected, we would just say that we don't know them as well as we thought we did. There may be times when it is legitimately very hard or impossible to square an episode with our understanding of characters, continuity, and even reality, but there is usually room for a reasonable explanation if we keep our mind open to one.

For example, I don't think 'Playing Favorites' is a bad Valerie episode; I just think it's a different setting for her. She isn't a 'teen villain', but rather disgruntled Bridget's edgy friend. We can't expect her 'scheme' to be sophisticated, because there isn't one; whenever we see her, she's in the middle of doing something else, like hanging out with Bridget, or getting food at the burger joint. Valerie is casually and habitually mean, and Wyatt is there, so she's mean to him. That's an entirely different context from the 'scheming Val' episodes, where she goes out of her way to pick at somebody because they have something she wants. Finally, though I've said this before, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss TETC; even if there isn't any obvious result right now, that doesn't mean that she won't change later on in her life, whether we see it in an episode or not.
Ooh. I love what you've said here and hadn't thought of this topic in this way. This is definitely something I'll consider when judging the actions of a character and I thought felt "off." You have made excellent points about Valerie and have made me think about her a tad differently.

There are instances where I can clearly recognize a character was acting uncharacteristically. Whit in "The Rydell Revelations" is an example of this. Regardless of the argument of whether or not Whit and Morrie's manipulation is comparable, Whit definitely acts uncharacteristically. He allows Morrie & Suzu to do bad and that directly contrasts his beliefs and actions in other episodes. In "The Ties that Bind, Part 6", he tells Olivia, "If I tolerate everything that makes me or others happy, even if its wrong, then I'm encouraging people to live out lives that could hurt their souls for eternity." It isn't a perfect comparison (but I'm sure I could find an even better one), but you can easily see why I believe that Whit was OOC in the latest three parter and why it's fair to say that.

However, on the subject of Buck, I originally felt a little confused. I was thinking about it today, and I think this actions works with his character and adds to it. We haven't seen in him in such a situation before; a friend acts in a somewhat ridiculous manner and arguments ensue. In my head, I've kinda just thought of Buck to be this teen who is always the non-confrontational peacekeeper. It didn't conflict with anything we've learned in the past about Buck, but that wasn't what the writers were necessarily trying to communicate with his character. That was all in my head and the first scene of this episode interfered with some of my perceptions. I can see how my thoughts and small headcanons were reflected onto his character and how I view him.
Bob wrote:What I find to be the biggest currently unanswered question is Coyote ("Ky"'s) thought process and motivation. The hypothesis Monica came up with seems plausible, but it strikes me as a little too easy. It's exactly the kind of plot fans expect, and would come up with on their own if given the time, because it hits on the need for 1) obvious villains, and 2) the episodes to be part of a 'plot', to meet the need for Jules being a victim.

The difficulty with saying that she was 'forced', though, is that she really hasn't been. Even when Jan came out of the blue to pick her up, she did have the opportunity to make a choice (to slow down), but she didn't. She eventually agreed with everything that's happened, even if it did take some persuading at points.

What I think is just as likely and may even make for a better story, is if Ky is on the level. I admit the full name isn't a very good first impression, but once he had actually been around a few minutes, he seemed to be a nice guy. Honestly, I thought at one point that Ky was too nice for Jan and that she would end up doing something to mess things up. It's possible that could change, but it might be that he is sincere in his intentions, and that the way they do it in the pop industry just doesn't mesh with Jules' expectations.

Here's a possible alternate plot: Jules eventually has enough and wants out. Ky is personally okay with her not doing these things, but if she doesn't, she can't be a 'pop star'. Jan is upset by the 'lost opportunity' at indirect fame and fortune, and there is some fallout, whereupon Jules ends up going back to Odyssey, with Jan blaming Jules for problems and not being inclined to have her around anymore. This plot also seems to be lacking a little something (since all it does is just make Jan, as opposed to both Jan and Ky, the 'villain') of the piece, but it could happen.
Love this!

I love your plot proposition and it's far superior to mine. :lol: I've seen these kind of plots enough before to make a guess, but I hope the episode takes some more unconventional routes. I really liked Ky in this episode, so I do want him to not become an antagonistic figure. I like that he cared about Jules's comfort and reservations. He geniunely seems to want to help Jules to accomplish her dreams of becoming a recognized singer. The whole thing about his name could have been a "don't-judge-a-book-by-its-cover" scenario and if that is the case, I am satisfied. If Jan is villainized...that's fine by me. It would make for some interesting conflict if Jules's mom pushed Jules to continue being a commercialized pop singer while Ky just wants her to do what works for Jules.

I realize "forced" may not have been the exact word I should have used. So far, Jules has been going along with everything willingly. But she has indeed raised her concerns that it "isn't her style." I think by the midpoint of part 2, she will have completely given up being herself in order to gain popularity and she will come to the realization that this isn't what she wants.
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Post by ByeByeBrownie »

MonkeyDude wrote:That ending though. ](*,) Hope y'all are ready to go full rom-com up in here haha! :lol:
YAAS GURL. The hopeless romantic in me is about to have a heyday, methinks. :cheerleader:
Bob wrote:I've found it's been a little hard to enjoy the other new episodes as much with the clouds from Rydell Revelations (and Millstones) hanging over everything, but I did listen to Part 1.
Well if this ain't a MOOD ](*,)
Honestly, though, these episodes have been a really nice contrast to whatever craziness is going on with the Rydell saga.
Bob wrote:On the subject of this episode and other recent ones, I think sometimes fans are too quick to jump into saying that somebody is portrayed in a way that is 'uncharacteristic'. In AIO, our first tendency is to blame the writers and say they got the character wrong if it doesn't meet our expectations, but if it were a real person and we saw them do something unexpected, we would just say that we don't know them as well as we thought we did. There may be times when it is legitimately very hard or impossible to square an episode with our understanding of characters, continuity, and even reality, but there is usually room for a reasonable explanation if we keep our mind open to one.

For example, I don't think 'Playing Favorites' is a bad Valerie episode; I just think it's a different setting for her. She isn't a 'teen villain', but rather disgruntled Bridget's edgy friend. We can't expect her 'scheme' to be sophisticated, because there isn't one; whenever we see her, she's in the middle of doing something else, like hanging out with Bridget, or getting food at the burger joint. Valerie is casually and habitually mean, and Wyatt is there, so she's mean to him. That's an entirely different context from the 'scheming Val' episodes, where she goes out of her way to pick at somebody because they have something she wants. Finally, though I've said this before, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss TETC; even if there isn't any obvious result right now, that doesn't mean that she won't change later on in her life, whether we see it in an episode or not.
I agree with this 100%. I know this isn't the place, but I'm going to take this a step further with Valerie and say that maybe she's also struggling with the fact that she has this image she's created for herself of being the bad-tempered and indifferent queen bee. She's now torn between her brand and what she knows to be right, and it's just kind of hard to get out of that head space.

With regards to Buck, I actually think it's really precious that he lets himself get mad at Jules. As Eugene observed in Crash Course, when Buck lets down his guard enough to show emotion like that, it means he really trusts and cares about the other person, and that just hits me right in the feels. :inlove:
Monica Stone wrote:I think I know exactly who's responsible for this - err, I think I know what's going to happen. Please tell me someone caught that reference The real reason Jan & Coyote brought Jules back to California so suddenly is because they heard about her FaceBase fame and her singing in the Wescott group, not because they want to form familial bonds. Jules makes this realization before also realizing how she isn't her "true self" when she is forced to be a commercialized pop singer. She also recognizes how much she misses Connie, Buck, and her other friends and goes back to Odyssey. She reconciles with Buck and goes back to live with Connie again.
This is exactly what I was thinking. But like Bob said, it does seem a little too easy. I have no further speculations here, so I'll just wait for the episode to come out and just enjoy the story as it unfolds. :)
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Post by Monica Stone »

What?!
Deus ex machina.
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Post by ByeByeBrownie »

SHUT THE FRONT DOOR. THAT. WAS. FANTASTIC.

Exactly the kind of feel-good fluff I needed after Revelations \:D/
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Post by Monica Stone »

'Twas indeed very fluffy. I am really confused about mainly Buck in this episode... like WHAT ON EARTH? How? Why? Did Eugene and Katrina know that he hopped on a plane to crash the concert? Doubtful. And that doesn't make any sense whatsoever with his earlier worries and insecurities about his friendship with Jules. And he conned people into getting his way on stage. That contradicts his earlier comments in episodes like at the end of "Much Ado about Jealousy" where he makes it very clear although he was deceptive in making Jules the comic book, he doesn't want to be a liar.

I think I made a half-hearted joke somewhere that Buck & Jules would sing a duet sooner or later. I'm on a roll with my predictions :shock:
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Post by CarlR »

I have to say that this episode was somewhat unrealistic, and I have very mixed feeling about it, from the timing to the plot... Let’s start with the timing, for the first part of the episode spanned approximately 15 hours and 10 minutes, that’s barely possible to do in a 26 minute show, and part 2 was even more unbelievable. I’d say the writing was marginal, but I really hoped Jules would become a Christian at the end. It’s great to have Dave Arnold back as a director, and I think he did a great job!! But the timing, and some parts of the plot just weigh out those good qualities, and that’s why I this episode will probably lower my over all album 69 rating. It was too short for the amount of time we had to wait to listen to it. It would be nice if there was an episode that would follow up California Dreams with Jules's life back in Odyssey.
Last edited by CarlR on Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Trista: Isn't it great to be an indevidual now, not just someone who wears what society tells them to wear?
Jules: But your telling my what to wear.
Trista: Of course, I'm your publicist, it's my job.

~~#902 California Dreams, Part 1~~
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Post by raspberryripple »

Okay, I have so many thoughts, but let’s start with this one:
The real reason Jan & Coyote brought Jules back to California so suddenly is because they heard about her FaceBase fame...
I have been thinking it was “FaceSpace” this entire time, like a mix between “Facebook” and “MySpace”, and now my ears literally cannot differentiate between the two.
On the subject of this episode and other recent ones, I think sometimes fans are too quick to jump into saying that somebody is portrayed in a way that is 'uncharacteristic'. In AIO, our first tendency is to blame the writers and say they got the character wrong if it doesn't meet our expectations, but if it were a real person and we saw them do something unexpected, we would just say that we don't know them as well as we thought we did. There may be times when it is legitimately very hard or impossible to square an episode with our understanding of characters, continuity, and even reality, but there is usually room for a reasonable explanation if we keep our mind open to one.
I love this, and I think you’re 100% right, we are really quick to judge characters based on the little boxes our minds have put them into.
The difficulty with saying that she was 'forced', though, is that she really hasn't been. Even when Jan came out of the blue to pick her up, she did have the opportunity to make a choice (to slow down), but she didn't. She eventually agreed with everything that's happened, even if it did take some persuading at points.
This is my biggest argument for why I do not like Jules. She’s very selfish and is uncaring towards the people that obviously care for her, i.e. Connie and Buck. I really want the Buck/Jules ship to sink tbh.
I am really confused about mainly Buck in this episode... like WHAT ON EARTH? How? Why? Did Eugene and Katrina know that he hopped on a plane to crash the concert? Doubtful. And that doesn't make any sense whatsoever with his earlier worries and insecurities about his friendship with Jules. And he conned people into getting his way on stage. That contradicts his earlier comments in episodes like at the end of "Much Ado about Jealousy" where he makes it very clear although he was deceptive in making Jules the comic book, he doesn't want to be a liar.
Just this. ALL of this. Can we just imagine a world where they gave this story the time it really needed? I would have loved to have finished this Part 2 with Jules fully submitting to selling out for fame and fortune (let’s be honest here, it’s very on-brand for her), and then find in a later story that fame isn’t treating her the way she expected and she starts to miss people that genuinely care for her rather than just use her (i.e. Jan and Coyote - what an OBVIOUS name). She’s been self-serving and vain this whole time, and has still come out smelling like roses!!
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CarlR
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Monica Stone wrote:'Twas indeed very fluffy. I am really confused about mainly Buck in this episode... like WHAT ON EARTH? How? Why? Did Eugene and Katrina know that he hopped on a plane to crash the concert? Doubtful. And that doesn't make any sense whatsoever with his earlier worries and insecurities about his friendship with Jules. And he conned people into getting his way on stage. That contradicts his earlier comments in episodes like at the end of "Much Ado about Jealousy" where he makes it very clear although he was deceptive in making Jules the comic book, he doesn't want to be a liar.

I think I made a half-hearted joke somewhere that Buck & Jules would sing a duet sooner or later. I'm on a roll with my predictions :shock:
I completely agree.
Buckles shipper, love Connie and Eugene. Visit my Odyssey website at http://odyssey-news.com/.


Trista: Isn't it great to be an indevidual now, not just someone who wears what society tells them to wear?
Jules: But your telling my what to wear.
Trista: Of course, I'm your publicist, it's my job.

~~#902 California Dreams, Part 1~~
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Post by Monica Stone »

Before I say anything else, I am strongly oposed to cancel culture, but I find it hilarious that the vegans cancelled Jules. This two-parter was #tooreal.
CarlR wrote:I have to say that this episode was somewhat unrealistic, and I have very mixed feeling about it, from the timing to the plot... Let’s start with the timing, for the first part of the episode spanned approximately 15 hours and 10 minutes, that’s barely possible to do in a 26 minute show, and part 2 was even more unbelievable. I’d say the writing was marginal, but I really hoped Jules would become a Christian at the end. It’s great to have Dave Arnold back as a director, and I think he did a great job!! But the timing, and some parts of the plot just weigh out those good qualities, and that’s why I this episode will probably lower my over all album 69 rating. It was too short for the amount of time we had to wait to listen to it. It would be nice if there was an episode that would follow up California Dreams with Jules's life back in Odyssey.
I think it's impressive that part 1 happened in that short of time and I think it worked well. As for the part 2, it spanned about 3-4 weeks. I might argue that the pacing was weird, but it didn't feel jarring. Everything flowed and it worked. My problem is in the plot execution and the way the story unfolded. I wish she hadn't had deus ex machina Buck to save her from her problems. Not gonna lie, though, I will admit that I will jam to their duet of "I'm Just Me." It's very catchy.

I didn't expect Jules to become a Christian yet. She isn't ready. These episodes focused on working on her flaws but not her journey of faith. By the end of the episode, she isn't excited to go to church per se, she just says she will. She and Buck have a ways to go before they become Christians. As for a followup, the album 70 description mentions that it will "continue the characters and storylines", so that probably means more Jules. Although I have problems with this episode, I am eager to see where Jules goes in the future.
raspberryripple wrote: This is my biggest argument for why I do not like Jules. She’s very selfish and is uncaring towards the people that obviously care for her, i.e. Connie and Buck. I really want the Buck/Jules ship to sink tbh.
Ah, I differ with you here. I respect your opinion, but I like that Jules is heavily flawed and there isn't a big rush to get her converted asap. I can say from personal experience, she is very realistic. I appreciate the writers are taking it slow and addressing her issues one by one. As for the Buck and Jules ship...they're just friends for now. The writers are gonna tease that it's more than friendship and fans are eating it up. I like them together as friends (and maybe someday more) but they need to work out their problems in a healthy way. They aren't in the same league. I ranted about this in one of my earlier replies on the thread ;)
raspberryripple wrote: I would have loved to have finished this Part 2 with Jules fully submitting to selling out for fame and fortune (let’s be honest here, it’s very on-brand for her), and then find in a later story that fame isn’t treating her the way she expected and she starts to miss people that genuinely care for her rather than just use her (i.e. Jan and Coyote - what an OBVIOUS name). She’s been self-serving and vain this whole time, and has still come out smelling like roses!!
That would have felt far more natural. They could have far better incorporated it into the story, so by the time Buck does show up, she is already wanting out and it isn't as murky. I wasn't even quite sure what she was thinking until Buck came around and she talked to him after the show. They clumsily mentioned that (for unknown reasons) Jules no longer cares about what others think. We needed to see learn this herself, rather than her simply telling us.

I'm sad about Coyote. :cry: I liked him in part 1. They really didn't need to antagonize him. It didn't really change anything in the story.
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Post by ByeByeBrownie »

Y'all are breaking my heart! Please don't tell me I'm the only one who loved this episode :boohoo:
Monica Stone wrote:Before I say anything else, I am strongly oposed to cancel culture, but I find it hilarious that the vegans cancelled Jules. This two-parter was #tooreal.
OMGOODNESS, yes! So much of this episode was culturally spot-on, and I just loved it. \:D/
Monica Stone wrote:
CarlR wrote:I have to say that this episode was somewhat unrealistic, and I have very mixed feeling about it, from the timing to the plot... Let’s start with the timing, for the first part of the episode spanned approximately 15 hours and 10 minutes, that’s barely possible to do in a 26 minute show, and part 2 was even more unbelievable. I’d say the writing was marginal, but I really hoped Jules would become a Christian at the end. It’s great to have Dave Arnold back as a director, and I think he did a great job!! But the timing, and some parts of the plot just weigh out those good qualities, and that’s why I this episode will probably lower my over all album 69 rating. It was too short for the amount of time we had to wait to listen to it. It would be nice if there was an episode that would follow up California Dreams with Jules's life back in Odyssey.
I think it's impressive that part 1 happened in that short of time and I think it worked well. As for the part 2, it spanned about 3-4 weeks. I might argue that the pacing was weird, but it didn't feel jarring. Everything flowed and it worked.
Yeah, I didn't mind the pacing at all in this one. It's made clear in the script that part 2 takes place over several weeks, and to stretch that out just wouldn't have been that interesting in my opinion.
Monica Stone wrote:'Twas indeed very fluffy. I am really confused about mainly Buck in this episode... like WHAT ON EARTH? How? Why? Did Eugene and Katrina know that he hopped on a plane to crash the concert? Doubtful. And that doesn't make any sense whatsoever with his earlier worries and insecurities about his friendship with Jules. And he conned people into getting his way on stage. That contradicts his earlier comments in episodes like at the end of "Much Ado about Jealousy" where he makes it very clear although he was deceptive in making Jules the comic book, he doesn't want to be a liar.
Monica Stone wrote:My problem is in the plot execution and the way the story unfolded. I wish she hadn't had deus ex machina Buck to save her from her problems.
Even though it is quite contrived, I really did enjoy Buck's part in the story as well (what can I say, I'm a sucker for overused plot devices O:) ).

Although I think Eugene and Katrina would have reservations about Buck hopping on a plane to California to go "rescue" Jules, I don't think it would really take that much convincing for them to let him go. And I can definitely see Connie being highly in favor of it.

I present to you the following hypothetical exchanges I saw on Tumblr:
Image
I also see Buck having a nice little wad of cash squirreled away somewhere from doing odd jobs and what not, so he would probably pay for the plane ticket himself, too.

I would also venture to say that when he tells Connie he's not going to try calling again, he probably already has it in his head that, no, he's not going to call again--he's going to do one better and show up in person.

As far as the conning goes, that's Buck's default behavior, learned from years and years of being indoctrinated by Mr. Skint, etc., so it doesn't surprise me that he'd slip back into it, especially when he's up against something big, like potentially losing his best friend.

All things considered, this two-parter isn't perfect by any means, but I really enjoyed it. :D
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Post by Bob »

So the plot did turn out to be the 'obvious' plot, but with a twist.

The 'obvious' plot is that Jan and Ky were in on it together to exploit Jules. My plot proposal was that Ky was sincere and Jan became a villain. The actual result is that Ky was a villain, and apparently Jan was sincere, the one combination that I didn't think of, apparently because we took for granted, even thinking outside the box, that her being flighty, self-interested, having bad taste in men, etc. made her at least a relatively terrible person.

A commentator in this episode says that Jules is '16'. Given that everything else about her presentation was dishonest, this is a little less of an ironclad fact than it would normally be, but if it is true, it goes a long way towards allowing us to figure out where we're at in the AIO chronology.

Buck does seem like a bit of a deus ex machina here, but the reason why is a bit interesting. It's not because it's actually impossible for him to do it (based on the information available to us). It's not even because it's out of character*. I think it's really because we wouldn't dream of doing anything so drastic and daring ourselves. We would have stayed at home and wrung our hands hoping that something would change, whereas Buck goes out and gets things done.

If you think about it, that's inspiring. I'm not saying that Buck's means are always or even often right, but the great heroes of the Bible were people who took action. It's likely easier to convert someone who's actively wrong than somebody who doesn't do anything, whether good or bad.

* If we look at previous episodes, this is part of a trend: "Old Tricks", "Friend or Foe", "Crash Course", "Divided We Fall", "Page from the Playbook", and "For a Song", among others, all involve Buck responding quickly, decisively, and sometimes dubiously, to some situation, obstacle, and/or threat. When he's in, he's all-in.
Last edited by Bob on Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by CarlR »

After I've had a chance to contemplate over the episodes, I think they are actually quite good, and believe I fired out on them too harshly in the begging. I still like part 1 better than part 2, but overall the episodes were great. And after listening to the bonus feature I have come to appreciate the songs, and music much more!
Buckles shipper, love Connie and Eugene. Visit my Odyssey website at http://odyssey-news.com/.


Trista: Isn't it great to be an indevidual now, not just someone who wears what society tells them to wear?
Jules: But your telling my what to wear.
Trista: Of course, I'm your publicist, it's my job.

~~#902 California Dreams, Part 1~~
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Post by ByeByeBrownie »

Bob wrote:Buck does seem like a bit of a deus ex machina here, but the reason why is a bit interesting. It's not because it's actually impossible for him to do it (based on the information available to us). It's not even because it's out of character*. I think it's really because we wouldn't dream of doing anything so drastic and daring ourselves. We would have stayed at home and wrung our hands hoping that something would change, whereas Buck goes out and gets things done.

If you think about it, that's inspiring. I'm not saying that Buck's means are always or even often right, but the great heroes of the Bible were people who took action. It's likely easier to convert someone who's actively wrong than somebody who doesn't do anything, whether good or bad.

* If we look at previous episodes, this is part of a trend: "Old Tricks", "Friend or Foe", "Crash Course", "Divided We Fall", "Page from the Playbook", and "For a Song", among others, all involve Buck responding quickly, decisively, and sometimes dubiously, to some situation, obstacle, and/or threat. When he's in, he's all-in.
This is spot-on. And probably exactly why I love Buck's character so much.
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