Marvel's Avengers: ******* April 26th 2019

Inside the theatre you're welcome to discuss your favorite television shows, musical artists, video games, books, movies, or anything popular culture!
User avatar
Knight Fisher
I fish in the darkness
I fish in the darkness
Posts: 5322
Joined: May 2011

Marvel's Avengers: ******* April 26th 2019

Post by Knight Fisher »

To LGBT ToOers: The world is so much wider than your family and church. There are accepting people out there.
Image
User avatar
Catspaw
Care Bear Admin
Care Bear Admin
Posts: 30428
Joined: April 2005
Location: Canada
Gender:

Post by Catspaw »

Oh my. This made me sad and hopeful at the same time, and also made me laugh. It will be a long wait until April! :mad:
Image
User avatar
American Eagle
Chief of Police
Posts: 11977
Joined: September 2008
Gender:

Post by American Eagle »

I'll be there opening night. So excited. Trailer did not reveal much, which is good, but it was enough to make April seem so far away.

"Part of the journey is the end." :cry: :inlove:
he/him | attorney | spartan | christian | bleeding heart type

Note: My past posts do not necessarily reflect my values. Many of them were made when I was young and (in retrospect) misguided. If you identify a post that expresses misinformation, prejudice, or anything harmful, please let me know.
User avatar
Catspaw
Care Bear Admin
Care Bear Admin
Posts: 30428
Joined: April 2005
Location: Canada
Gender:

Post by Catspaw »

I doubt I will attend opening night because I'm sure it will be totally crazy, but I will not wait long! I don't want any big spoilers. AE's right that the trailer shows enough to be tantalizing without make you think you have any idea what's going on!

I really just came by to watch the trailer again. Apparently it had almost 300 million views in 24 hours, so I'm sure I'm not the only one to watch it twice!
Image
User avatar
Jehoshaphat
Someone's favorite
Posts: 1574
Joined: November 2011
Gender:

Post by Jehoshaphat »

I got my tickets! I am going to go opening night! I am super excited. This movie has so much riding on it. It is truly the end of an era. I remember the first Marvel movies coming out way back when. I think the first I ever saw in theater was Thor. It is so weird to finally wrap up.

I am excited to see how they tie everything together and begin a new era of Marvel movies.
Image
Unicorns exist... they just got fat and now we call them rhinos.
My online family
I am Monty's and thefinalhour Awesome Brother. GJ is my rebellious little sister
If you want me to be in your online family send me a PM.
User avatar
Catspaw
Care Bear Admin
Care Bear Admin
Posts: 30428
Joined: April 2005
Location: Canada
Gender:

Post by Catspaw »

Fun! I'm hoping to go the second weekend in anticipation that the opening weekend will be crazy, but I'm sure it will be amazing to be one of the first to see it. :D
Image
User avatar
Jehoshaphat
Someone's favorite
Posts: 1574
Joined: November 2011
Gender:

Post by Jehoshaphat »

Oh. My. Gosh. THIS MOVIE! I am 100% satisfied. One of the best movies I have seen. The theater was alive with fans tonight. More clapping and yelling for a movie than I have ever experienced.

More details later.
Image
Unicorns exist... they just got fat and now we call them rhinos.
My online family
I am Monty's and thefinalhour Awesome Brother. GJ is my rebellious little sister
If you want me to be in your online family send me a PM.
User avatar
Scientific Guy
Tallying up
Posts: 140
Joined: August 2017
Contact:

Post by Scientific Guy »

Spoiler theory! Spoilers are contained in this post.
No, seriously, spoilers! Also spoilers for Captain Marvel.

What if all of Endgame was just a dream?

Tony is stranded on the Benatar at the beginning of the film, before he starts to "drift off." What if he actually did drift off into a comatose state?

A lot of things in Endgame didn't make sense to me. I was a little let down by the movie's cop-out of time travel to solve the dilemma. Especially confusing was the characterization of 2014 Thanos. When he (AND IF YOU'RE STILL READING THIS WITHOUT SEEING THE MOVIE, PLEASE STOP) tries to snap in the "eternity war" at the end of the film, he was going to destroy absolutely all life, not just half. That doesn't fit his characterization. Ultron was the one who wanted to wipe out humanity, and that was because Ultron is not a logical being. Although both he and Thanos are motivated by the mind stone, Thanos pursues the more logical approach of keeping half the universe. Where is his motivation to destroy it all? Doing so would place him in the position of god, which he doesn't want. His throne room shows that he's not looking for glory, just a solution to the problem of life.

Tony doesn't know this. All he knows is that Thanos is genocidal, trying to destroy New York, not cut it in half. He would imagine Thanos doing something like what almost happened at the end of this film.

Furthermore, Tony doesn't know what's going on with Bruce and Hulk. All he knows is that they're having "a thing." He could imagine Bruce and Hulk being in the process of reconciling their differences (at the beginning of Infinity War), but that wasn't the situation. Bruce had only just become aware of the Hulk's reluctance to emerge; bringing Professor Hulk into the first act of Endgame seems a little too quick. However, it makes sense if Tony thinks that Bruce has been wrestling with Hulk since Age of Ultron; he doesn't know about Hulk's time on Sakaar.

And the whole time travel plot seemed way too quickly introduced into the movie. Scott's theory doesn't even make full sense, but it's just a hypothesis. However, this hypothesis is very quickly confirmed to work. And the rules of time travel are said once. Once, by Hulk.

So if Tony was dreaming, then Thanos' ultimate genocide plan makes sense, Professor Hulk has longer to have been developed, and time travel makes sense because Tony's imagining it and making up the rules as he goes.

However, how is Tony getting the extra information he needs for this dream? Tony had a dream in Infinity War about a child, named after an "eccentric uncle" (if I remember correctly). He already had that information prior to the dream, simply imagining the events in his dream based on what he already knew. But if Endgame was Tony's dream, how does he know about Captain Marvel, the Quantum Realm, or Korg and Miek (among other things)?

Remember in Age of Ultron, when Scarlet Witch gave Thor his vision of the Infinity Stones and Vision? Scarlet Witch could not have known about these two things before she gave him the vision, nor could Thor have, but they still appeared in the dream! Scarlet Witch's telepathic abilities were able to give Thor this vision. It wasn't a vision of every event about to take place, but key details from the upcoming event. If Endgame was a telepathic dream given to Tony, then he would be able to see Captain Marvel (the "strongest" [yeah, right] Avenger), Ant-Man (the smallest Avenger) and his current location (the Quantum Realm), and Korg and Miek (survivors of the attack on Asgard).

But I know what you're thinking. Scarlet Witch was decimated by Thanos. If Tony's dream starts at the beginning of Endgame, then she's already gone. Who would give Tony such a dream?

Captain Marvel. She has telepathy. See this clip, around 49 or 50 seconds in. Listen closely: https://youtu.be/9QbltzIUV6w?t=49

After the mid-credits scene of Captain Marvel, when she arrives at Avengers HQ, she goes to look for Tony. Why does it take her so long (22? days) to find him? What if it took even longer to find him, and once she did, he was almost dead? So what if she gave Tony the beginning of a telepathic dream, to try to wake him up, and Tony filled in the rest with his ideal end of his life?

I'll let my theory rest for now.
_________________
Signatures are overrated.
User avatar
Jehoshaphat
Someone's favorite
Posts: 1574
Joined: November 2011
Gender:

Post by Jehoshaphat »

I went to see it again with my siblings today.
Here are my thoughts on the movie:

WARNING HEAVY SPOILERS INCLUDED:
***READ AT YOUR OWN RISK***

I loved this movie. It isn't my favorite all-time movie(that place is reserved for Get Smart) or even my favorite Marvel movie(That goes to Thor: Ragnarok). But it is definitely a close second.

From the beginning this movie tugged at my heart-strings. Seeing Hawkeye's family fade into dust was so jarring right at the beginning of the film. It really set the scene for the rest of the film. I also totally understand why Hawkeye felt the need to mete out justice on villains in the world. Put in a similar position, I would have done the same thing. It isn't fair for my family to die but a violent gang member to live. Continuing with Hawkeye for second, I love his and Natasha's relationship. They have such a brother/sister thing going on, I love it. The way they just platonically love each other is amazing.

Iron Man in the ship with Nebula was a great scene. The way he taught Nebula how to play the football game and when she won, it was an amazing experience. When Captain Marvel showed up to save them the people in the theater literally clapped for her. It was epic.

Iron Man's response to everything was completely understandable. They lost, and they knew they lost. Killing Thanos didn't make any difference. It made it all seem impossible. Hopeless almost. I felt the heaviness in the theater.

I loved how a rat literally saved the universe.

I also really appreciated that Scott's first response was to look for his daughter, not for his girlfriend or anyone else, but his daughter. That was moving. That was actually a moving theme throughout the entire film. Clint, Scott, and Tony were all motivated by the desire to protect their families. It is a great message about the importance of family.

The whole time travel thing didn't really make sense the first time I watched it. The second time made much more sense but I am still confused. IT was just a totally different version of time travel than I am used to.

The whole thing with Thor slightly bothered me, but also was relatable. If I failed to stop the apocalypse I would probably fall into a similar depression that he did. His character showed even more development throughout this movie than I was expecting. I have heard a lot of people saying that they destroyed his character and that he was just a joke. I think there was more to it than that, he failed and didn't know how to cope with that. It portrayed a deep humanity in Thor's character and showed the reality of life. Also, when he gave the kingship to Valkyrie that showed incredible maturity and humility.

NATASHA

I mean seriously, NATASHA <3. This was one of the most momentous scenes in the entire movie. The way she and Barton went back and forth over who would die was heartbreaking. But she proved her place as one of the greatest, if not the greatest, Avengers. I was crying during this scene. It also made way more sense for her to die than Barton. He has a family, she doesn't. #NatForever

Captain America is the strongest Avenger. When he picked up Thor's hammer people clapped and cheered. It was a momentous moment. He then wielded Thor's power. Wow, stunning.

Iron Man is and always will be my favorite Avenger. This movie just gave me so many more reasons to love him the most. The way he treats his daughter is so sweet. The way he sacrificed himself for the universe was stunning. Also, when he was talking to his dad Howard mentioned that he didn't want his son to be like him. Because he tends to put his own self-interests ahead of the greater good. Tony completed resurrected that by sacrificing himself and his perfect future for the sake of the universe. He could have stayed home and lived his nice perfect life but he chose instead to save the world. His death was a redemption story. I was moved. The theater was dead quiet when it happened.

I also appreciated how Cap finally decided to settle down and live a normal life. He has fought for so long he deserved a happy ending.

I loved this movie. I loved that it required real sacrifice. I was worried that nothing consequential would happen. But things happened. It was sad, it was hard, but it was so worth it. After 22 movies, we finally made. This movie is truly one for the ages. A true end to this game we have played for so long.

Long live Phase 4!
My response to the above theory:
I don't understand the endgame of this theory. All good theories need a reason to be the way they are. If it is all just a dream, then what? Then it doesn't matter. I just don't think that is realistic.

To the specific points:

I think that Thanos' character developed. His original plan was to simply wipe out half the universe, but he is seeing the affect that is having. It has become clear to him that his original plan isn't going to work out because as he said in the movie, as long as there is someone to remember how things were, they will never be able to move on. His goal is still to make the universe a better place, he simply is changing methods.

I don't buy the whole Captain Marvel has telepathy thing. The clip really doesn't show that at all. It took her so long because the universe is a big place. In the movie the first time she shows up is with Tony. Not before. Like Tony said, tomorrow they would run out of oxygen, if she showed up any later he would have been dead from asphyxiation not simply almost dead.

Overall, I just don't buy it. It doesn't really make sense in the context of the rest of the films.
Image
Unicorns exist... they just got fat and now we call them rhinos.
My online family
I am Monty's and thefinalhour Awesome Brother. GJ is my rebellious little sister
If you want me to be in your online family send me a PM.
User avatar
Monty_Whittaker
My posts are revolutionary
Posts: 388
Joined: September 2016
Location: Tatsumi Port Island
Status: The game begins.

Post by Monty_Whittaker »

Seeing it Saturday!
Resident JRPG nut
User avatar
The Top Crusader
Hammer Bro
Hammer Bro
Posts: 22629
Joined: April 2005
Location: A drawbridge over a lava pit with an axe conveniently off to the side

Post by The Top Crusader »

I really enjoyed the movie, lots of fun, but I do think it either... has a stupid plot, or a lot of plot holes, or something.
Like all the "well we can remove this thing from time and as long as we get it back in its place everything will be fine." That just wouldn't really be possible to do so perfectly (did Cap go and re-inject Jane Foster with the red goop? And what about the Loki that escaped with the teseract?), and I know they have a throw away line about, "all the movies you've seen about time travel did it wrong!" but I maintain no, they did it mostly right (with plot holes of their own I'm sure), if you take something from 2012 and bring it to 2019, then it disappeared in 2012 and all the events between the two would be altered.

And the five year gap at the beginning isn't a plot hole, but I'm curious to see how they address that going forward and it seems like a bad idea. I was expecting Stark to have to make the ultimate sacrifice to save the universe by erasing those five years (and his family) and bringing everything back to the "snap" point. But instead we get people who vanished five years ago just reappearing. You would assume (and you saw with Cap early in the film) that there has been complete devastation emotionally across the world--some people who lost all their loved ones probably killed themselves, others, over five years, probably moved on and remarried, but HEY! Now everyone who was gone in the snap is back! Everyone who is still around living is five years older! Ant-Man's daughter is a teenager but Hawkeye's kids are still young! Again, not a plot hole, but just really weird and I don't see them being able to adequately address it going forward.
User avatar
Woody
Set blasters to rapid-fire
Posts: 5152
Joined: January 2012
Location: Whenever and wherever I want to be

Post by Woody »

Agreed, Top. I enjoyed the fan service, especially Cap wielding Mjolnir. The emotional bits did pay off well, though I will say I found Natasha's death to be a bit more impactful than Tony's. But despite the enjoyability of the film, I just can't get past the utter nonsensicalness of it.
I have been robbed of my rightful secret moderator powers! Vote here to help me get them back!
User avatar
The Top Crusader
Hammer Bro
Hammer Bro
Posts: 22629
Joined: April 2005
Location: A drawbridge over a lava pit with an axe conveniently off to the side

Post by The Top Crusader »

Woody wrote:
Agreed, Top. I enjoyed the fan service, especially Cap wielding Mjolnir. The emotional bits did pay off well, though I will say I found Natasha's death to be a bit more impactful than Tony's. But despite the enjoyability of the film, I just can't get past the utter nonsensicalness of it.
Yeah, I assumed Cap would wield Mjolnir, but I wasn't sure, so I was pretty happy about that! \:D/

As an audience we like Tony but realistically most of their problems over the years have all been his fault, so he kind of got what he deserved. ;)

So, uh... is the Black Widow movie they announced a prequel I guess? Maybe when Cap chucked back the stone it brought her back?
User avatar
Tea Ess
Animatronic
Posts: 1067
Joined: August 2012

Post by Tea Ess »

I saw this last weekend with friends and quite enjoyed it. \:D/ The only other Avengers movie I had seen (except Age of Ultron, but that was without sound) was Infinity Wars, and surprisingly I was still able to get most of the plot.
I was a little disappointed they resorted to using a time machine to stop Thanos, and the techno-babble used to justify it being in the movie was just annoying. It seems like using the time stone would have fit better into the plot, especially with Dr. Strange's actions in Infinity Wars. I admittedly am not familiar with the source material or the Doctor Strange movie, but is it possible to use the time stone to send a group of people backwards/forwards in time?
"And the fire with all the strength it hath."
User avatar
Catspaw
Care Bear Admin
Care Bear Admin
Posts: 30428
Joined: April 2005
Location: Canada
Gender:

Post by Catspaw »

I saw the movie yesterday and really enjoyed the experience overall.
Like a couple other people mentioned, I can't wrap my head around how the time travel works. Some things change, some things don't, it just seems weird. I don't have a problem with them using it so much as it seems inconsistent, though I have to honestly say that I am not great at tracking stuff like that and it doesn't really matter that much to me in the end. ;) I'm in it for the great stories, the epic sacrifices, the never-ending laughs at the sight of fat Thor....you know, deep stuff that matters in life. :yes: I laughed so much at Thor. Good times. One my of favourite lines was Thor coining the phrase, "Asgardians of the Galaxy." :lol:

I appreciated the sacrifice that Tony made and that it had to be him. I was getting the feeling that it would have to be him, so it wasn't totally shocking, but some part of me still hoped that he would survive to enjoy the happy life he had found. Somebody had to pay the price. I like happy endings, and sometimes they come at a cost, in this case for Tony and Natasha. I was quite upset at Natasha's death, but when I realized it was down to her or Clint, I knew it had to be her. Clint has a family, she would never let him die instead of her, and (in my opinion) it entirely opens up the possibility to send Steve back in time to Peggy. I know this is controversial to some (and I'm not interested in arguing about it, for the debate-minded posters out there) but I personally thought Steve and Natasha had a lot of chemistry, ever since Cap 2, and would have been happy to see them end up together. I have absolutely no problem with Steve and Peggy finally getting their happily ever after (other than the part where I can't figure out the time part of it - does his going back change all the events inbetween? Is it weirder or more or less plausible if things do change or don't change? I can't wrap my head around it) and think they are wonderful together, but I think if Nat was still alive, that gets more complicated in the eyes of some people. I was a little misty-eyed when Natasha died, and a little more when Tony died (though in some ways I was more upset about Natasha's death) but the part that really got me teary-eyed was watching Steve and Peggy dancing to "their" music at the end. It was beautiful and a very nice ending. :sniff:

On a personal braggy note, I heard other people talking about crying in the theatre ahead of time and promised my brother prior to the start of the movie that I would try to cry quietly, but I never actually really cried. \:D/
Image
User avatar
The Top Crusader
Hammer Bro
Hammer Bro
Posts: 22629
Joined: April 2005
Location: A drawbridge over a lava pit with an axe conveniently off to the side

Post by The Top Crusader »

There was some weird animated direct to DVD "hey all the Avengers hooked up and had kids apparently and now they have to be heroes" movie that I'm pretty sure had a child of Cap/Black Widow. So there is always that. I think that was pre-Disney buyout so it probably doesn't count, though.
User avatar
Catspaw
Care Bear Admin
Care Bear Admin
Posts: 30428
Joined: April 2005
Location: Canada
Gender:

Post by Catspaw »

The Top Crusader wrote:
There was some weird animated direct to DVD "hey all the Avengers hooked up and had kids apparently and now they have to be heroes" movie that I'm pretty sure had a child of Cap/Black Widow. So there is always that. I think that was pre-Disney buyout so it probably doesn't count, though.
I knew there was some comic stuff at some point, but not a movie. I don't anticipate watching it ;) but that's nice to know! Of course, who else but Top would know that? This is the kind of thing fanfiction was invented for. ;)

In my earlier post I forgot to mention how much I enjoyed the format of time travelling to momentous scenes from previous movies, like right after they capture Loki at the end of Avengers. It was fun to get a different perspective on the scene and see the "what-if" possibilities. I loved the scene with Cap in the elevator with guys from the Cap 2 elevator fight scene and the genius way of doing things the easier way this time around! :lol: Too funny.
Image
User avatar
Scientific Guy
Tallying up
Posts: 140
Joined: August 2017
Contact:

Post by Scientific Guy »

Let me try a different theory.
I think I found a way to figure out the time travel: the Quantum Time Machine works in an analogous way to the Imagination Station. The past isn't changed; it's reworked from the entry point forward. Every time the machine is used, a new reality is created, which means that there are 7 total realities: 2023 main timeline, 2018 Clint shouting his daughter's name, 2012 New York but Loki escapes, 2013 Asgard but Thor talks to his mom, 1970 Tony meets his dad and Steve steals Pym particles, 1940 to 2300 Earth but Cap is living with Peggy (and probably stopping HYDRA), and 2014 Morag / Vormir but Thanos is gone (which means that the universe is saved).
I don't fully understand why the infinity stones have to exist in each reality, especially because the 2023 timeline has NO infinity stones now (and which is probably the premise of Spider-Man: Far From Home), but I can live with it.
For me, this is my favorite movie of all time, but my second-favorite Marvel movie (after Infinity War, if that ranking makes any sense), second because while I don't believe now that there were ANY plotholes in Endgame, I didn't think that at first. The film didn't do a good enough job of explaining that.

_________________
Signatures are overrated.
User avatar
Catspaw
Care Bear Admin
Care Bear Admin
Posts: 30428
Joined: April 2005
Location: Canada
Gender:

Post by Catspaw »

Scientific Guy wrote:Let me try a different theory.
I think I found a way to figure out the time travel: the Quantum Time Machine works in an analogous way to the Imagination Station. The past isn't changed; it's reworked from the entry point forward. Every time the machine is used, a new reality is created, which means that there are 7 total realities: 2023 main timeline, 2018 Clint shouting his daughter's name, 2012 New York but Loki escapes, 2013 Asgard but Thor talks to his mom, 1970 Tony meets his dad and Steve steals Pym particles, 1940 to 2300 Earth but Cap is living with Peggy (and probably stopping HYDRA), and 2014 Morag / Vormir but Thanos is gone (which means that the universe is saved).
I don't fully understand why the infinity stones have to exist in each reality, especially because the 2023 timeline has NO infinity stones now (and which is probably the premise of Spider-Man: Far From Home), but I can live with it.
For me, this is my favorite movie of all time, but my second-favorite Marvel movie (after Infinity War, if that ranking makes any sense), second because while I don't believe now that there were ANY plotholes in Endgame, I didn't think that at first. The film didn't do a good enough job of explaining that.

_________________
Signatures are overrated.
That actually kind of makes sense to me. I think that's a good sign. ;)
Image
User avatar
Knight Fisher
I fish in the darkness
I fish in the darkness
Posts: 5322
Joined: May 2011

Post by Knight Fisher »

Met up with a friend to watch Endgame for a second time but in IMAX and it was absolutely gorgeous on the big screen. \:D/
endgamemirror.jpg
To LGBT ToOers: The world is so much wider than your family and church. There are accepting people out there.
Image
Post Reply